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Lynas Issue by Dr. HW Looi >>>

Repost comment from Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah

Dear NK Khoo,

ANSWER TO NUCLEAR SCIENTIST WHO CLAIMED THAT IN PLACES WITH HIGH ENVIRONMENTAL RADIATION LIKE RAMSAR, THE INHABITANTS DO NOT SUFFER ANY ILL EFFECT BECAUSE OF ADAPTATION, FOR EXAMPLE THE CASE OF CHERNOBYL RAPID ADAPTATION TAKES PLACE AMONG THE “LIQUIDATORS”.

Quote “the writer has forgotten the glaring fact that those inhabitants in these locations have gone through generations of adaptations “. Unquote

REPLY: This I feel is a gross simplification of the situation. As you should know for a useful mutation to take place under a selective pressure like radiation we need the presence of millions upon millions of reproductive events.

Those individuals without this useful mutation must be selectively eliminated through death or inability to reproduce.

Deaths and infertility have not been a known side effect of the slow, low level radiation seen in Ramsar where the average radiation, though higher then other places, are still way below the lethal level. The average radiation level is only 10 mSv per year, though in some areas it may be as high as 260 mSv/yr.

Humans are not like bacteria or viruses where millions or even billions of individual organisms are involved and where there is a generation change within about 20 minutes or so.

In Ramsar, for instance the population in 2006 is only 31,000.

In terms of useful mutation that can be transmitted to the whole population to materialise, the chance of such a mutation must be incredibly small for such a genetically tiny non-isolated population. Those 31,000 people over the years must have moved freely to and from other parts of Iran.

For a tiny population and where the reproductive cycle is in terms of 20 years or so the number of generations must run into thousands or even more.

Moreover, Ramsar is not an isolated island, but rather part of an easily accessible area of Iran where there are frequent movement of people and genetic material.

As such, for that one incredible rare mutation providing resistance to radiation to be transmitted to whole non-static population is near impossible, especially when that one mutant needs to impregnate and transmit this useful gene to a whole non-static population. He must be a real SUPERMAN!

The example of radiation accident at Chernobyl where 30 people lost their lives as a result of acute radiation syndrome is a rather poor example to explain the development of genetically transmitted radiation tolerance.

The exposure was very acute and at a very high dose, at levels of about 100 mSv over a very short time. These are highly lethal doses and as such should obviously cause a certain number of deaths, just like any other toxin or chemical where not all that are exposed will die and as such we have such a statistical value called LD50.

According to UNSEAR apart from increased thyroid cancers, there is no evidence of a major public health impact attributable to radiation exposure 20 years after the accident. This includes all the “liquidators” (clean-up workers) in the Chernobyl disaster.

Although I must admit that the genetic makeup has a big influence on the severity of the damage, there are many other factors that needs to be considered like the actual dose of radiation, how acute was the dose delivered, the organs involved, the amount of various types of existing chemicals (like iodine) present in the body, the size of the person, the existing health condition etc.

It is tantamount to saying that if a certain number of people are given 150 tablets of panadol at 30 tablets per day for five days a certain number of them will die from liver failure. The genetically tolerant patients will be “selected” by this selection pressure to pass the genes to the now panadol resistant population. This may be a fair argument.

However, if a similar group of people were given 150 tablets of panadol at only 5 tablets per day in divided doses, this is no longer a form of selection pressure as the dosage though high is well below the danger threshold and will not cause any death from liver failure.

The average dose of radiation received by people in Ramsar is about 10 milisievert/year, though in some cases can reach a level in excess of 260 milisievert/year.

This radiation level of 10 mSv/year is like taking 150 tablets of panadol at 5 tablets per day in divided doses. At this low level it is not a significant evolutional selection pressure as it is way below a level which can cause rapid evolutional changes.

What I am trying to say is that it is NOT VALID to use the results of the ACUTE HIGH INTENSITY radiation (100 mSv over a very short period) of Chernobyl to justify evolutionary changes in the chronic low intensity (about 10 mSv/year) radiation found in places like Ramsar. Such low intensity radiation (of 10 mSv/year which is half that allowed for an industrial worker) do not kill and has not been scientifically and conclusively proven to reduce fertility and as such cannot act as an evolutionary selection factor.

Dr Looi


Frankly speaking I do not respect those so-called scientists, they people probably barely passing SPM modern mathematics.

Dear NK Khoo,

Thorium-232 In Clay Soil Cannot Get Into Body Tissues

1. Ingestion

Thorium-232 is strongly bound (adsorbed) by soil especially clay soil. The Thorium in the clay particles is about 500,000 % higher than in the water between the clay particles.
So, it cannot be leached out by water and pollute the rivers.
When ingested there is insignificant absorption of the Thorium because of this strong bond between the clay particles and the Thorium. Practically all the Thorium will be excreted with the clay.

2. Inhalation

Because of its mass, Thorium-232 particles are very heavy and has great difficulty to get airborne.

Normally these particles get airborne only when they are very small and the only ones that can get deep into the lungs are those which are about 1 to 2 micron in diameter.

These fine particles are only found in the mines and experimental nuclear plants where powerful machines are used or where there is combustion. The chance of inhaling 1 to 2 micron sized thorium particles in the Kuantan air is practically non-existent.

All lung disorders are associated with prolonged exposure in the mines or Thoriun refining plants where the above conditions are present.

3. External Threat

Thorium-232 produces only alpha rays (gamma rays from daughter isotopes are insignificant) which cannot pass through even a thin piece of paper or the surface of the skin.
There is therefore no external threat.

4. Unnatural Routes of Entry

The only way Thorium can gain entry into the body is by injection. In the past where huge doses of 25cc to 50 cc of a 25% solution of Thorium dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into the vein for contrast radiological studies, a small number of patients may develop cancers 20 to 30 years later. Even with these high unnatural doses, there was no acute toxicity.

In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants,
The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.

So if Thorium cannot enter the body in significant amounts by ingestion or inhalation and alpha rays do not pose an external threat, what’s all the big fuss about the Lynas rare earth plant ?

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, Mb.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), LRCP(London), MRCP(UK)


Dear NK Khoo,

Recently I received a few comments with regards to the various letters that I wrote about Thorium-232.

As expected, most of them are rather childish, infantile and devoid of any intellectual content and as such do not merit any response from me.

However, there are a few genuine statements which need further explanation.

One reader stated that although Thorium-232 may not be dangerous, all their “daughter” isotopes have very short half-lives like Radon-220 and these are highly radioactive, so how could we say that Thorium-232 is not dangerous.

Well, the reason is obvious. But I find great difficulty in explaining to a layman the reason why when an element with an extremely long half-life that decays into isotopes with very short half-life, there is minimal accumulation of the short half-life isotopes and as such do not build up into a large enough quantity to pose any significant hazard.

I will try to explain by this simple analogy.

If there are 2 million people waiting outside a stadium and 1 million people managed to get into the stadium after 14,000,000,000 years (half-life of Thorium-232), it means that you will see only 1 person getting into the stadium every 14,000 years.

But once in the stadium the half-life of the new person (half-life of Radon-220 from the Thorium-232 decay chain is only 55 seconds) is so short when compared with those outside (Thorium-232) that he has left the stadium almost immediately. Getting in is extremely slow but getting out is extremely fast!

Since only 1 person gets into the stadium every 14,000 years, it you look into the stadium you will see it as empty most of the time!

It is just like trying to fill up a bucket by a slow, slow drop by drop drip and the bucket has a big hole at the bottom. If you look into the bucket you will see practically little or no water in it!

Since the Lynas waste product has only 6 Bq/gm of radioactivity, the chance of detecting any significant amount of radon gas is pretty slim indeed.

Another query is the inhalation of Thorium dust.

We must remember that Thorium-232 is heavier than the so called non-radioactive Lead-208 (actually Lead-208 does decay, but since it has an even longer half-life of 19 million billion years, the radioactivity is insignificant).

Because of its mass, Thorium-232 particles are very heavy and has great difficulty to get airborne.

Normally these particles get airborne only when they are very small and the only ones that can get deep into the lungs are those which are about 1 micron in diameter.

These fine particles are only found in the mines and experimental nuclear plants where there powerful machines are used. The chance of inhaling 1 micron sized thorium particles in the Kuantan air is practically non-existent.

What we need to worry about is the inhalation of other types of far more dangerous dust particles like lead in the car exhaust fumes, silica (causing silicosis) in granite quarries, and other pneumoconiosis like abestosis and severe chronic bronchitis from coal mining.

All these lung disorders are associated with prolonged exposure in the mines.

To be very frank, I have not seen or heard or found in the scientific literature of any case of proven lung disease, death or for that matter, any disease in humans caused by Thorium-232.

Thorium-232 has not been definitely proven to have caused a single human death in the world since the beginning of recorded history!

And this should be compared with about 15,000 deaths caused by humans (murders) every year in the USA.

Worldwide, about 2 to 3 million deaths are caused by Malaria every year.

So Mosquitoes in the air is far, far more dangerous than Thorium-232 in the air!


Dear NK Khoo,

I have a special interest in nuclear medicine in the last 40 years or so. And I find that what you have said in your blog is essentially correct and honest.

It is rather painful to see how so many well educated Malaysians are being misled by irresponsible people with obvious ulterior motives.

Even the president of CAP thought that since Thorium-40 (nkkhoo says it should be -232) has a long half-life, it is extremely dangerous when the reverse is true.

Here are some more facts with regards to the Lynas controversy:

The potassium tablets that your doctor gives you for high blood pressure is highly radioactive with a radioactivity of 32 Bq/gm and we need about 2 to 3 grams of potassium per day to stay alive.

The radioactivity comes from potassium-40. This is more than 500% the radioactivity of the Lynas waste which contains only 6 Bq/gm mainly from Thorium-232.

All the potassium that we eat everyday in our food contains potassium-40 and the normal dietary potassium would give a total of about 80 Bq per day.

The so-called sodium free salt recommended by health experts to combat high blood pressure is nothing more than just highly radioactive potassium salt! Even a lot of doctors do not know this!

Thorium-232 decay produces only alpha particles which can be stopped by a piece of thin paper and cannot penetrate even the outer layer of the human skin, whereas potassium-40 in our diet produces the highly dangerous gamma and beta rays from all the 3 types of beta decay, i.e. electron emission, electron capture and positron emission.

THE LONGER THE HALF-LIFE OF A SUBSTANCE THE LESS IS THE RADIOACTIVITY and as such the less dangerous it is.

As a simple analogy, if it takes 14 billion years for half of a house to be burnt, there is no chance of anybody getting hurt. But if it takes only 14 minutes for half of the house to be burnt down, a lot of people will be injured or killed.

Thorium-232 which is found in the Lynas waste has an incredibly long half-life of 14 billion years and as such is much less radioactive than the Potassium-40 whose half-life is only 1.25 billion years.

Radioactivity in Bq (number of atoms decaying in 1 second)

Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium = 31.825 Bq/gm
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm

It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.

In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr. This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.

And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.

We are exposed to radiation all our lives. In fact we get 4,400 Bq of radiation from the Potassium-40 with a further 3,000 Bq from Carbon-14 which forms part of our body tissues.

There is no way we can escape completely from radiation. Even outer space is full of radiation. The only way we can escape from all radiation is to leave this universe! or jump into the Kuantan River and be eaten by the crocodiles. Come to think about it, this would not work either as human body has its own radioactivity.

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah,
Kuantan.

ps. I have absolutely no link whatsoever to the Lynas Corp. or to the present Government and have absolutely nothing to gain whatsoever. I just want the people to know the facts and make up their own minds.

The nkkhoo.com comment board with Facebook account.
looihw88 says:

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Quote The Hon. Dr Jeyakumar Deveraj dated 21.02.13: “. Let’s calculate the amount of radioactivity that is going to be introduced into the country…….. 64,000 tons of waste will be emitting 6.4 x 64 x 109 radioactive rays each second. Multiply that by 60sec x 60min x 24hr x 365days and you will get a measure of the amount of radiation we will be introducing into our country for the year – 12.9bn RADIOACTIVE EMISSIONS EACH YEAR ..”. Unquote.

COMMENT:

12.9 BILLION RADIOACTIVE EMISSIONS EACH YEAR sounds like a very dangerous amount, but counting the number of Bq per year is meaningless.

For instance, the human body has 4,400 Bq from Potassium-40 and another 3,000 Bq from Carbon-14 giving a total of 7,400 Bq. which will be =

233.37 BILLION RADIOACTIVE EMISSIONS per person EACH YEAR or 6,534 MILLION BILLION for the 28 million people in Malaysia.

(Note: Dr Jeyakumar is wrong in his calculation as he has forgotten the X10^9 in his equation).

SO IF THE GOOD HON. DR JEYAKUMAR HIMSELF PRODUCES 233.37 BILLION RADIOACTIVE EMISSIONS EACH YEAR,

WHAT’S ALL THE FUSS ABOUT LYNAS PRODUCING ONLY 12.9 BILLION (as calculated by Dr Jeyakumar) RADIOACTIVE EMISSIONS EACH YEAR !

What’s more important is what the biological effect of the radionuclide has on the human body.

Since the average absorbed Beta energy of K-40 decay is 499 keV and the average absorbed Gamma energy is 156 keV,

THE INTERNAL DOSAGE from K-40 ~ 0.24 mSv/yr:
(120x Lynas worst case scenario)

The human body is subjected to an internal dose of ~ 0.4 mSv from Potassium-40, Carbon-14 and other trace radionuclides and as such

Sleeping next to someone (i.e. your wife or husband) for 8 hours a day will lead to an exposure of 0.02 mSv/year (Source: UNSCEAR and EPA) i.e. 10x that of Lynas worst case scenario.

There is no natural way for Metallic Thorium or insoluble Thorium compounds or even soluble salts when adsorbed with clay to enter the body in any significant amount and as Nick Tsurikov, International Radiation Safety Expert and Co-author of IAEA Radiation Safety Report says

“THORIUM IN ‘WASTE’ IS INSOLUBLE AND CANNOT POISON ANY PLANTS, ANIMALS OR THE ENVIRONMENT – EVEN IN THEORY.” Unquote.

There has not been a single death or injury that has been definitely and conclusively proven beyond any scientific doubt from the accidental inhalation or ingestion of Thorium-232 !

Compare this with death caused by Water i.e. from drowning… 388,000 drowning deaths in 2004 alone (WHO).

It is also not possible for Thorium-232 to get into the lungs of the Kuantan folks because only particles of between 0.65 to 5 microns are able to get deep into the lungs.

Those particles which are larger than 5 microns are trapped by the mucosa in the upper respiratory tract and are cough out with the phlegm.

Those particles which are smaller than 0.65 microns will behave like the nitrogen gas in the air and is exhaled with the exhaust air.

Particles of less than 5 microns are found only in the Thorium or Uranium mines where powerful machines are used, or where there is combustion.

THE LYNAS PLANT IS NOT A THORIUM MINE AND KUANTAN FOLKS ARE NOT MINERS !

QUOTE NICK TSURIKOV, INTERNATIONAL RADIATION SAFETY EXPERT WHO IS THE CO-AUTHOR OF IAEA RADIATION SAFETY REPORT:

“On dust particles – THERE IS NO WAY WHATSOEVER FOR

DUST PARTICLES OF AROUND 10 MICRONS TO GET INTO

THE LUNGS –

THE STUFF THAT GETS THERE IS 5 MICRONS OR LESS,..

The vast majority of the (Lynas) concentrate is EITHER 10 MICRONS or above, SO THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY ISSUE HERE.” Unquote.

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
*
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242

looihw88l says:

*
*
MORE ON THORIUM-232 SAFETY

Since the average absorbed Beta energy of K-40 decay is 499 keV and the average absorbed Gamma energy is 156 keV,

THE INTERNAL DOSAGE from K-40 ~ 0.24 mSv/yr:
(120x Lynas worst case scenario)

So why complain about radiation from Lynas when there is the equivalent of 120 Lynas plants producing radiation already inside your body in the form of Potassium-40 !

####

There is no natural way for Metallic Thorium or insoluble Thorium compounds or even soluble salts when adsorbed with clay, to enter the body in any significant amount and as Nick Tsurikov, International Radiation Safety Expert and Co-author of IAEA Radiation Safety Report says

“THORIUM IN ‘WASTE’ IS INSOLUBLE AND CANNOT POISON ANY PLANTS, ANIMALS OR THE ENVIRONMENT – EVEN IN THEORY.” Unquote.

There has not been a single death or injury that has been definitely and conclusively proven beyond any scientific doubt from the accidental inhalation or ingestion of Thorium-232 !

Compare this with death caused by Water i.e. from drowning… 388,000 drowning deaths in 2004 alone (WHO).

####

Metallic Thorium or it’s insoluble compounds are chemically innocuous and inert especially when adsorbed by clay.

Soluble form in the absence of clay absorption = 0.02 to 0.05%.
With clay, much much less.

Studies show that a small number out of the 4 million patients who were given this massive dose of 1 or 2 vials (containing 5.58g to 11.7g of thorium) of Thorotrast, developed cancer especially of the liver 20 to 30 years later in their old age.

Even if we ignore the incredibly strong adsorption to clay, in order to get 5.58g of thorium-232 (equivalent to 1 vial of Thorotrast), we have to swallow an incredible 17,000kg or 17 tonnes of Lynas waste!

Even with 11.7 g of Th-232 given parenterally, no acute toxicity noted.

####

Thorium-232 is not a Carcinogen (cancer causing agent) if Inhaled or Ingested according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC.

Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.

Even this may not be true as the carcinogenic effects of the massive dose of Xray from those antique Xray machines (about 1,000 mSv per fluoroscopy and some of the 4 million patients may have had more than one fluoroscopy done in their lifetime) was not taken in consideration when UNSCEAR came to the conclusion that Th-232 given parenterally is a carcinogen.

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London).
*
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242

looihw88l says:

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HAVE A LOOK AT ALL THE VULGARITIES AND OBSCENITIES OOZING OUT OF THE ANTI-LYNAS RED GUARDS IN THIS LINK !

ALL THESE OBSCENITIES AND VULGARITIES DIRECTED TO ME FOR TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT LYNAS AND THE SCIENTIFIC FACTS TO DEBUNK THE LIES PROPAGATED AND DISEMINATED BY THEIR MASTER BRAINWASHERS !

PLEASE SEE ALL THE 182 COMMENTS…… 99% VULGARITIES.

CLICK “View Previous Comments” as well in the link.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=158561994277994&set=a.158561367611390.35092.151057301695130&type=1&comment_id=173973&offset=0&total_comments=179

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

looihw88l says:

1. SAFETY OF THORIUM-232

It is safer and cleaner than uranium because its radioactivity is significantly lower:

Quote Richard Martin, famous journalist with extensive experience in Thorium

“A CHUNK OF THORIUM IS NO MORE HARMFUL THAN A BAR OF SOAP”.

You can safely hold metallic Thorium-232 in your hands as it is an alpha emitter and alpha particles cannot penetrate even a piece of paper.

#####

2. Thorium-232 is strongly adsorbed to clay. There is no natural way it can get into body. Even the plants and fruits do not contain any Thorium in places with high Thorium in soil.

The amount of Th-232 in the human body is tiny (estimated to be only 30 micrograms per body i.e. to get 30 gm of Th-232, you need 1 million bodies!

NICK TSURIKOV, INTERNATIONAL RADIATION SAFETY SPECIALIST

THORIUM IN “WASTE” IS INSOLUBLE AND CANNOT POISON ANY PLANTS, ANIMALS OR THE ENVIRONMENT – EVEN IN THEORY.

RADIATION FROM THE PLANT WILL BE UNDETECTABLE OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES (of the plant).”

#####

3. QUOTE NICK TSURIKOV, INTERNATIONAL RADIATION SAFETY EXPERT WHO IS THE CO-AUTHOR OF IAEA RADIATION SAFETY REPORT:

“On dust particles – THERE IS NO WAY WHATSOEVER FOR

DUSTPARTICLES OF AROUND 10 MICRONS TO GET INTO

THE LUNGS –

THE STUFF THAT GETS THERE IS 5 MICRONS OR LESS,..

The vast majority of the (Lynas) concentrate is either 10 MICRONS or above, SO THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY ISSUE HERE.”

#####

4. BECAUSE OF THE EXTREME LOW SPECIFIC ACTIVITY OF TH-232, THE AMOUNT OF DECAY PRODUCT IS MINUSCULE e.g.

Thorium-232 produced from the WLP per year is only about 95 tonnes and as such a 1 year accumulation of Th-232 produces only 0.5098 MICROGRAMS OF RADON-220/HR OR 0.00005172 ML (CC)/HR of Thoron gas at STP.

At secular equilibrium, the amount of daughter Radon-220 is only 167 femtograms per ton of Lynas WLP i.e.

0.000000000000167 grams.

THIS AMOUNT IS NOT ENOUGH TO TICKLE THE BACKSIDE OF A NEWBORN PIGMY BABY CATERPILLAR !

#####

5. THE longer the half-life of a substance, the less its radioactivity.

As an analogy, if it takes 14 billion years for half of a house to be burnt, there is no chance of anybody getting hurt. But if it takes only 14 minutes for half of the house to be burnt down, many will be injured or killed.

Thorium-232, which is found in the Lynas waste, has an incredibly long half-life of 14 billion years and as such is much less radioactive than the potassium-40 whose half-life is only 1.25 billion years

#####

6. LEAD-208 WHICH IS USED IN YOUR CAR BATTERIES HAVE AN EVEN LONGER HALF LIFE OF 19 MILLION BILLION YEARS AND AS SUCH IS REGARDED AS NON-RADIOACTIVE…i.e. it decays extremely slowly and therefore the radioactivity is incredible low!

So it’s silly and illogical to say that thorium long half life means that it is dangerous.. It means that is very only very weakly radioactive and can even be held in your hands!

#####

7. KEROSENE GAS MANTLES USED IN HAWKER’S LAMPS
THESE GAS MANTLES ARE MADE OF FABRIC SOAKED IN THORIUM-232 AND AFTER THE INITIAL “FIRING” BECOMES ALMOST PURE THORIUM DIOXIDE.

MILLIONS HAD HELD THESE “DANGEROUS, RADIOACTIVE” THORIUM GAS MANTLES IN THEIR HANDS.

REMEMBER THORIUM DIOXIDE HAS A SPECIFIC ACTIVITY OF 3,585 Bq/g ! THE “WASTE” FROM LYNAS IS ONLY 6 Bq/g.

WHY FRIGHTEN OF 6 Bq/g FROM WASTE AND NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE 3,585 Bq/g FROM THEIR KEROSENE LAMP ?

#####

8. THE ANNUAL DOSE RATE EXPOSURE

1. FROM MALAYSIAN CLAY BRICK HOUSE = 0.43 mSv/year
(215 x Lynas Worst Case Scenario)

2. SLEEPING IN WOODEN HOUSE = 0.20 mSv/yr
(100x Lynas worst case)

3. SLAG BRICK AND GRANITE HOUSE = up to 2.0 mSv/yr
(1,000x Lynas worst case)

SO TO ALL ANTI-LYNAS FOLKS, YOU SHOULD PITCH UP A TENT NEXT TO THE LYNAS PLANT AND SEND YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY TO LIVE NEXT TO LYNAS AS THIS IS HUNDREDS OF TIMES LESS RADIOACTIVE THAN LIVING IN YOUR PRESENT WOODEN OR BRICK HOUSES

#####

9.

1. WASTE FROM MALAYSIAN AMANG INDUSTRY > 100 Bq/g

2. WASTE “SCALE AND SLUDGE” IN OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY

________ LIKE IN PETRONAS = 1,000 Bq/g

3. and ___Lynas WLP only = 6 Bq/g !

SO WHY NO GREENIES PROTESTS AT THE MORE THAN 10 AMANG
( TIN TAILING ) PLANTS AND AT PETRONAS ?

#####

10 Nick Tsurikov, Radiation Safety Expert ” THE MAJORITY OF THIS LYNAS “WASTE” WILL HAVE ONLY HALF THE THORIUM THAN IN NORMAL MALAYSIAN SOIL.

Lynas residues are half as radioactive as the sand the kids all over Malaysia play in the kindergartens

If you do look through the Lynas RIA together with UN (not IAEA) reports –

you will clearly see that two most ‘voluminous’ residues from LAMP will have less than 12 parts per million of thorium –

and the average MALAYSIAN SOIL – 20 ppm OF THORIUM.

CONT.

11. IN MOST OF THE ADVANCED COUNTRIES LIKE THE USA, CANADA AND AUSTRALIA WHERE THERE ARE NO HALF BAKED SELF STYLED SCIENTISTS, ANY MATERIAL THAT HAS AN ACTIVITY OF LESS THAN 10 Bq/g is regarded as non-radioactive for transport and do not require any special permission.

LYNAS ORE = ONLY 6 Bq/g AND THEREFORE REQUIRES NO SPECIAL PERMISSION IN MOST OF THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.

#####

12. THE MOST BIOLOGICALLY DAMAGING FORMS OF GAMMA RAYS OCCUR IN THE GAMMA RAY WINDOW OF BETWEEN 3 MeV AND 10 MeV.

Those below 3.0 MeV are NOT very harmful. They have poor penetrating power and do not deposit much energy.

Those higher energy gamma rays of greater than 10 MeV are
NOT very harmful because the body is relatively transparent to them.

THE AVERAGE ENERGY OF THE MOST ABUNDANT EMISSION OF Th-232 IS ONLY 0.059 MeV.

#####

13. UNSCEAR ADMIT THAT THEY WERE WRONG TO IMPLY THAT THERE IS NO SAFE LEVEL OF RADIATION !

There IS a safe level !

UNSCEAR (THE UNITED NATIONS SCENTIFIC COMMITTEE ON THE EFFECTS OF ATOMIC RADIATION) HAS FINALLY ADMITTED THAT RADIATION DOSES LESS THAN ABOUT 10 rem (100 mSv ) per year ARE SAFE.

(Note: 100 mSv = 5,000,000 % Lynas worst case scenario)

#####

14. RADIATION EXPOSURE OF 100 mSv/yr IS SAFE: Prof WADE ALLISON

Nick Tsurikov, International Radiation Safety Expert:

“EXPERTS INCLUDING Professor WADE ALLISON OF OXFORD UNIVERSITY ARGUE THAT THE DOSE LIMIT CAN SAFELY BE RAISED TO 100 mSv, based on current health statistics.”

(100 mSv/yr = 50,000 times or 5,000,000% higher than Lynas worst case scenario)

#####

15. SLEEPING NEXT TO SOMEONE for 8 hrs/day
(e.g. your wife or husband) = 0.02 mSv (UNSCEAR)
(10x Lynas worst case)

SO DON’T SLEEP WITH YOUR WIFE OR HUSBAND since this is like sleeping next to 10 Lynas plants!

Dose in worst case scenario for Lynas plant = 0.002 mSv/yr

Malaysian Monazite Ore in Tin Tailings or Amang = 284 Bq/g or 69,608 ppm

Lynas ore and Lynas WLP “waste” ~ 6 Bq/g or < 1,600 ppm

#####

16. THE FINISHED PROCESSED RARE EARTH PRODUCT EMITS ONLY 0.156 mSv/yr ( A TARMAC ROAD EMITS 2.4 TO 2.6 mSv/yr ! ) – so a fraction of what people in everyday life naturally experience.

The radiation from a tarmac road comes from Thorium-232, Uranium-238, Potassium-40, Radium and other trace radionuclides in the Tar and the Granite stones.

#####

17. When the mother radionuclide has an extremely long half life and the daughters have very short half life, there is very little accumulation of the short half life daughters.

The concentration of the daughter radionuclides is negligible e.g. there is only 1 atom of Radium 224 for every 1.4 trillion atoms of Thorium-232 at equilibrium.

#####

18. As far as radon gas is concerned, it must be remembered that Radon-220 from the decay chain of Thorium-232 has a very short half life of only 55 seconds!

As such only a tiny amount of Radon-220 (a.k.a. Thoron) within a few centimetres of the surface of a huge pile of waste will be able to live long enough to escape from the pile and see the light of day!

#####

19. A lot of people have mistaken Radon-220 from Thorium-232 decay series with the more notorious Radon-222 which has a much longer half life of 3.8 days. Radon-222 comes from Uranium-238 decay series.

Because of its much longer half life, Radon-222 can and do accumulate in the cellars and poorly ventilated areas of domestic dwellings. Radon-222 is the gas that has been linked to lung cancers in especially non-smokers.

#####

20. AS STATED BY MORMAN FREDERICK MOORE, THE AUSTRALIAN MINISTER FOR MINES AND PETROLEUM, IF LYNAS HAVE CHOSEN TO OPERATE IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA, IT WOULD BE WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS !

1. Alkane has decided to build a multi-billion dollar rare earth plant in the outskirts of Sydney.

2. Arafura is building a huge Rare Earth Processing Plant costing over A$1 Billion in Whyalla in South Australia.

Dato' Dr Looi,

Bakri Chik says:

hujah Dr looi susah nak faham pasal saya tak fasih Inggeris, maklumlah belajar melayu saje….

nkkhoo says:

The English speakers also have hard time to understand technical jargons.

芯心 says:

Welcome to join Himpunan Hijao Raub 欢迎参加劳勿绿色集会
2 September 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PBTr7EdrEw&feature=relmfu

反公害、反五毒(關丹稀土廠、勞勿山埃採金、邊佳蘭石化、砂拉越煉鋁廠及巴南水壩)
捍卫绿色地球,争取健康生活,维护下一代的未来。
请马来西亚公民,勇敢站出来!!!

nkkhoo says:

I’m fully agree cyanide will cause massive damage to environment and human health. BBC (may be France TV) did produce a program on gold mining’s disasters in Indonesia.

华心 says:

台湾石化民阻拦,转移来到边佳兰,
无良政府有够烂,不顾环境被污染,
一意孤行民不满,强行建厂太野蛮,
马华会长结新欢,居民健康他不管,
欲火冰棒他最专,自讲自爽口头禅,
卖华领袖上仪山,插青挖墓逼迁搬,
人民权益被侵犯,激起民怨全民反,
毒害公业来生产,存心把毒来扩散,
精神虐待不胜烦,生活恐惧睡难安,
胜产龙虾的海湾,毒厂建后怎么办,
别当石化不相干,环境破坏难承担,
如此无良的政坛,追根究底一个贪,
既然把民当笨蛋,大选到时陪他玩,
多年恩怨今日算,新仇旧恨齐买单,
卖华领袖通通斩,巫统议员全部换,
改朝换代新领班,离苦得乐赞赞赞。

Ong Goo Kang says:

Dr Looi

Can you counter the argument put forth in this letter, which really concerns a lot of people on the health risks:
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/200572

looihw88l says:

COMMENT ON MOHD IDRIS (?CAP PRESIDENT) ARTICLE IN MALAYSIAKINI

1. LYNAS WASTE IS A “TENORM”

COMMENT:

The use of the term “TENORM” has gone out of fashion for quite a number of years but it looks like the Anti-Lynas folks have reintroduced it just recently.

TENORM has been defined as ” Technically ENHANCED Naturally Occurring Radioactive Material.”

Now:
ORE FOR LYNAS PLANT = 1,600 ppm of Thorium

TWO MOST VOLUMINOUS LYNAS “WASTE” = 12 ppm of Thorium

3rd RESIDUE STREAM = 1,500 ppm of Thorium

AVERAGE MALAYSIAN SOIL = 20 ppm OF THORIUM

Since the concentration of Thorium-232 is not ENHANCED or concentrated and the concentration of the ‘waste” is less than the original ore, IT IS RATHER SILLY TO CALL THE LYNAS “WASTE” A TENORM.

DILUTING A SUBSTANCE WILL NOT MAKE IT GO AWAY, BUT YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT IT IS AN INTERNATIONALLY LEGITIMATE AND ACCEPTED WAY FOR REDUCING ANY RADIONUCLIDE’S IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT.

For instance, STRYCHNINE IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS POISON AND YET WHEN PROPERLY DILUTED IT HAS BEEN USED FOR DECADES AS A TONIC !

CHORINE WHICH IS ALSO AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS POISON, WHEN WELL DILUTED IN WATER IS PERFECTLY SAFE AND IS DRUNK BY ALL THE ANTI-LYNAS FOLK IN THE FORM OF TAP WATER!

Perhaps this clarification by Nick Tsurikov will help.

QUOTE: “The funny bit about NORM/TENORM – as I’ve said many times before: the term ‘TENORM’ is meaningless and it’s use is discouraged internationally.

The example that I gave before, I think:

(a) I buy a truckload of sand mixed with gravel, but need to separate the two.

(b) Sand has 3 parts per million thorium, gravel – 30 parts per million; overall average = 10 ppm

(c) So I grab a shovel and throw the stuff through the metal mesh – sand goes through, gravel stays on my side.

So…

BY THE DEFINITION OF TENORM – I am ‘technical enhancing NORM’ and therefore, I am ‘generating’ horribly deadly TENORM – as the concentration of radioactivity in the final product (gravel) is THREE TIMES HIGHER than the background.

So – I need to be strictly controlled and cannot even buy the sand/gravel mix, until I’ll get licensed by the AELB and a dozen of other departments…

So it is actually up to the national regulators to decide what to regulate – IAEA suggests 1 Bq/gram of thorium and/or uranium, some countries have 0.5 Bq/g, others – for different materials – up to 10 Bq/g.” UNQUOTE.

2. STUDIES BY DR ROSLIE BERTELL, A RADIATION AND NUCLEAR HEALTH EXPERT ON BUKIT MERAH
.
COMMENT:

Quote Ng Ai Soo:

“This is the same Bertell in http://depletedcranium.com/rosalie-bertell-freakin-crazy-old-lady/ and in http://depletedcranium.com/rosalie-bertell-crazy-and-dangerous-old-lady/ and she is the editor-in-chief of the journal…….quoted: International Perspectives in Public Health.

What happened to the children in Bukit Merah and Carey Island?

It is more than 20 years now and any further (or worsening) effects of the radiation exposure would have become clear by now in comparison with the unexposed cohort at Carey Island.

Is there not a follow up study on this?

Does CAP have it in Penang? Or does Dr. Jayabalan have it?

This is immediate relevance to this line of reasoning… otherwise the lack of follow up could be interpreted as if there was no significant effect on those kids.” Unquote

The studies by Dr Bertell and Dr Jayabalan on Bukit Merah need to be taken not just with a pinch of salt, but rather a bucket full of salt !

To be taken seriously as a valid study, it should have a valid high quality statistical analysis with statistically significant results and repeated studies must show similar results. The above studies above do not have any of these characteristics and qualities.

And moreover, the study should be double blind and involve a large number of subjects. The above studies above do not have it.

So, whatever conclusions that these studies evoke, is as good as what Ahmad, Ah Kow, Ramasamy and some busybody housewives say and conclude while waiting at the bus stop !

3. STUDY BY PADMANABHAN OF HIGH BACKGROUND RADIATION IN KERALA revealed that there was a high incidence of heritable anomalies in the high background region (HBRR). There was a statistically significant increase of Down syndrome, autosomal dominant anomalies and multifactorial diseases and an insignificant increase of autosomal recessive and X-linked recessive anomalies in the HBRR.

COMMENT:

In a unique study by scientists at the John Hopkins University, published in 1988 by American Journal of Epidemiology, researchers investigated the association of parental occupational exposure to low-level external whole-body penetrating ionizing radiation and risk of congenital malformations in their offspring.

THE UNIQUE FEATURE OF THIS STUDY WAS THE LINKING OF QUANTITATIVE INDIVIDUAL MEASUREMENTS OF EXTERNAL WHOLE-BODY PENETRATING IONIZING RADIATION EXPOSURE OF EMPLOYEES AT THE HANDFORD SITE IN WASHINGTON STATE, USING PERSONAL DOSIMETERS AND THE DISEASE OUTCOME i.e. CONGENITAL MALFORMATIONS.

The study population included 672 malformation cases and 977 matched controls from births occurring from 1957 through 1980.

Twelve specific malformation types were analyzed for evidence of association with employment of the parents at Hanford and with occupational exposure to ionizing radiation.

Two defects, congenital dislocation of the hip and tracheoesophageal fistula, showed statistically significant associations with employment of the parents at Hanford, BUT NOT WITH PARENTAL RADIATION EXPOSURE.

Neural tube defects like spina bifida showed a slightly significant association with parental preconception exposure, but the number of cases is too small to be conclusive of a definite co-relation.

Eleven other defects, INCLUDING DOWN SYNDROME AND CEREBRAL PALSY showed no evidence of such an association.

When all malformations were analyzed as a group, there was no evidence of an association with employment of the parents at Hanford.

Given the number of statistical tests conducted, some or all of the observed positive correlations are likely to represent false positive findings.

In view of strong contradictory evidence in this well conducted study and the fact that there is NO CONGENITAL DEFECTS DEMONSTRATED IN STUDIES ON THE ATOMIC BOMB SURVIVORS IN HIRAOSHIMA AND NAGASAKI,

THE CONCLUSION IS THAT “IT IS UNLIKELY THAT LOW DOSE RADIATION CAN CAUSE CONGENITAL DEFECTS.”

After analysing thousands of well conducted studies, even UNSCEAR has now admitted THAT THEY WERE WRONG TO IMPLY THAT THERE IS NO SAFE LEVEL OF RADIATION !

There IS a safe level and that is,

RADIATION DOSES LESS THAN ABOUT 10 rem (100 mSv ) per year ARE SAFE.

(Note: 100 mSv = 5,OO0,000 % Lynas worst case scenario)

*
Have a look at this article recommended by Nick Tsurikov, the International Radiation Safety Expert and Co-author of the IAEA Radiation Safety Report.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2013/01/11/like-weve-been-saying-radiation-is-not-a-big-deal/

Excerpts of Article in Forbes:

“UNSCEAR (THE UNITED NATIONS SCENTIFIC COMMITTEE ON THE EFFECTS OF ATOMIC RADIATION) HAS FINALLY ADMITTED THAT WE CAN’T USE THE LNT HYPOTHESIS TO PREDICT CANCER FROM LOW DOSES OF RADIATION.”

IN ADDITION, THE ANNUAL DOSE EXPOSURE TO THE POPULATION IN KERALA IS MUCH HIGHER.

In the south western area of Kerala state in India, the Thorium-232 in the soil is as high as 4,000 parts per million as compared to the Lynas waste which has only 1,650 parts per million.

And studies have shown that the population which have been living all their lives in these areas, do not have a higher incidence of cancer and their blood and tissues do not have a significant increase in the level of Thorium.

The radiation at Karunagapally, Kerala has been assessed at 5 to 8 mSv/year. In certain location on the coast, it is as high as 70 mSv/year.

70 mSv = 3,500,000 % higher than Lynas worst case scenario !

Dr Looi

Dato' Dr HW Looi says:

AS NK KHOO SAYS, I AM NOT PRO OR ANTI LYNAS.
I AM JUST ANTI-IGNORANCE.

AND I STARTED TO WRITE ALL THESE COMMENTS AFTER SEEING HOW certain devious, unscrupulous and irresponsible people are trying to surreptitiously inseminate ALL THOSE SENSELESS, ILLOGICAL AND IRRATIONAL MISPERCEPTIONS into the naive, innocent minds of the unsuspecting Kuantan people and how the whole population of Kuantan have been brainwashed into believing the absolutely ridiculous and unbelievable lies.
.
Thank you

Freddy says:

Yes, similarly to Umno that is trying to surreptitiously inseminate ALL THOSE SENSELESS, ILLOGICAL AND IRRATIONAL MISPERCEPTIONS into the naive, innocent minds of the unsuspecting malays on the so-called Anwar’s affairs with Saiful’s a@#$hole.

Anggah says:

To Dr Looi via NKKHOO Blog :

Dr Looi
We don’t dispute your credentials.
We are against Lynas set-up simply because our apanama bolehland has poor maintenance mentality. This will create leakages (like money flow out of country) of harmful material if our people cannot adhere to simple standard operating procedures (like ISO etc).
So until we are a nation of developed mind then we agree we can set up Lynas operation without potential risk.
Thank you.

nkkhoo says:

Both pro and anti-Lynas groups actually are talking nonsense on scientific matters.

Dr Looi used to support Lynas like me, but both of us remain neutral now after 428 Bersih 3.0 rally.

Murugan says:

The question is whether the Preliminary Environmental Impact Assessment (PEIA) methodology of our country has lower standards than Taiwan’s to the extent that our authorities can accept the Pengerang project with open arms.

Dato' Dr HW Looi says:

Dear NK Khoo,

ANSWER TO NUCLEAR SCIENTIST WHO CLAIMED THAT IN PLACES WITH HIGH ENVIRONMENTAL RADIATION LIKE RAMSAR, THE INHABITANTS DO NOT SUFFER ANY ILL EFFECT BECAUSE OF ADAPTATION, FOR EXAMPLE THE CASE OF CHERNOBYL RAPID ADAPTATION TAKES PLACE AMONG THE “LIQUIDATORS”.

Quote “the writer has forgotten the glaring fact that those inhabitants in these locations have gone through generations of adaptations “. Unquote

REPLY: This I feel is a gross simplification of the situation. As you should know for a useful mutation to take place under a selective pressure like radiation we need the presence of millions upon millions of reproductive events.

Those individuals without this useful mutation must be selectively eliminated through death or inability to reproduce.

Deaths and infertility have not been a known side effect of the slow, low level radiation seen in Ramsar where the average radiation, though higher then other places, are still way below the lethal level. The average radiation level is only 10 mSv per year, though in some areas it may be as high as 260 mSv/yr.

Humans are not like bacteria or viruses where millions or even billions of individual organisms are involved and where there is a generation change within about 20 minutes or so.

In Ramsar, for instance the population in 2006 is only 31,000.

In terms of useful mutation that can be transmitted to the whole population to materialise, the chance of such a mutation must be incredibly small for such a genetically tiny non-isolated population. Those 31,000 people over the years must have moved freely to and from other parts of Iran.

For a tiny population and where the reproductive cycle is in terms of 20 years or so the number of generations must run into thousands or even more.

Moreover, Ramsar is not an isolated island, but rather part of an easily accessible area of Iran where there are frequent movement of people and genetic material.

As such, for that one incredible rare mutation providing resistance to radiation to be transmitted to whole non-static population is near impossible, especially when that one mutant needs to impregnate and transmit this useful gene to a whole non-static population. He must be a real SUPERMAN!

The example of radiation accident at Chernobyl where 30 people lost their lives as a result of acute radiation syndrome is a rather poor example to explain the development of genetically transmitted radiation tolerance.

The exposure was very acute and at a very high dose, at levels of about 100 mSv over a very short time. These are highly lethal doses and as such should obviously cause a certain number of deaths, just like any other toxin or chemical where not all that are exposed will die and as such we have such a statistical value called LD50.

According to UNSEAR apart from increased thyroid cancers, there is no evidence of a major public health impact attributable to radiation exposure 20 years after the accident. This includes all the “liquidators” (clean-up workers) in the Chernobyl disaster.

Although I must admit that the genetic makeup has a big influence on the severity of the damage, there are many other factors that needs to be considered like the actual dose of radiation, how acute was the dose delivered, the organs involved, the amount of various types of existing chemicals (like iodine) present in the body, the size of the person, the existing health condition etc.

It is tantamount to saying that if a certain number of people are given 150 tablets of panadol at 30 tablets per day for five days a certain number of them will die from liver failure. The genetically tolerant patients will be “selected” by this selection pressure to pass the genes to the now panadol resistant population. This may be a fair argument.

However, if a similar group of people were given 150 tablets of panadol at only 5 tablets per day in divided doses, this is no longer a form of selection pressure as the dosage though high is well below the danger threshold and will not cause any death from liver failure.

The average dose of radiation received by people in Ramsar is about 10 milisievert/year, though in some cases can reach a level in excess of 260 milisievert/year.

This radiation level of 10 mSv/year is like taking 150 tablets of panadol at 5 tablets per day in divided doses. At this low level it is not a significant evolutional selection pressure as it is way below a level which can cause rapid evolutional changes.

What I am trying to say is that it is NOT VALID to use the results of the ACUTE HIGH INTENSITY radiation (100 mSv over a very short period) of Chernobyl to justify evolutionary changes in the chronic low intensity (about 10 mSv/year) radiation found in places like Ramsar. Such low intensity radiation (of 10 mSv/year which is half that allowed for an industrial worker) do not kill and has not been scientifically and conclusively proven to reduce fertility and as such cannot act as an evolutionary selection factor.

Dr Looi

Dato' Dr HW Looi says:

Dear NK Khoo,

Do Not Be Paranoid about Radiation for Radiation is Everywhere. EVEN YOUR WIFE IS RADIOACTIVE!

Even our DNA is radioactive as the highly radioactive Carbon-14 which constitute a part of the DNA molecule undergoes beta decay by emission of an electron and an antineutrino and changes into Nitrogen-14.
So even our sacred DNA changes with time as a result of this intrinsic radioactivity.

The potassium tablets that your doctor gives you as an adjunct for high blood pressure therapy is highly radioactive with a radioactivity of 32 Bq/gm and we need about 2 to 3 grams of potassium per day to stay alive.

The radioactivity comes from potassium-40. This is more than 500% the radioactivity of the Lynas waste which contains only 6 Bq/gm mainly from Thorium-232.

Potassium when taken stays in the intracellular space where the cancer sensitive chromosomes are located whereas the ingested or inhaled Thorium-232 remains in the extracellular (outside the cell) space.

All the potassium that we eat everyday in our food contains potassium-40 and the normal dietary potassium would give a total of about 80 Bq per day.
Compare this with the Lynas waste which produces only 6 Bq/gm

Even your wife or husband is radioactive, with a radioactivity of 4,000 Bq from Potassium-40 and another 3,000 Bq from Carbon-14 giving a total of about 7,000 Bq!

Since all living cells contain potassium, all types of meat, flesh, fruits, nuts and vegetables are radioactive because of the potassium-40 content.

The so-called sodium free salt recommended by health experts to combat high blood pressure is nothing more than just highly radioactive potassium salt! Even a lot of doctors, specialists and professors do not know this!

A miner for Potassium chloride (16.4 Bq/G) would only need to be near the big pile of the mine for about 7 hours to exceed the public dose limit of 1 mSv.
This exposure level is same dose of radiation as working 6 months in LAMP or living 500 years near it.
The message here is that more radioactive substances are freely sold in the shops and used as a fertilizer or eaten by us than you would otherwise thought.
Guarapari which has a population about 100,000 is a coastal town in Brazil.
Every year, many people visit the beach with black sand in this town for swimming and treatment of rheumatic disorders.
The usual beach sand in Guarapari has a radiation dose of 5 microsievert/hour.
The black sand is even higher with 131 microsievert/hour. Average radiation exposure of Guarapari is 175 milisievert/year.
The radioactivity is originated from the mountains rich in zirconites and monazites along the coast.
Ramsar is a city in Iran with population of more than 31,000. The average dose of radiation received by people in Ramsar is about 10 milisievert/year, and can reach level in exceed of 260 milisievert/year.
Most of the radiation in the area is due to dissolved Radium-226 in water of 9 hot springs along with smaller amounts of uranium and thorium due to travertine (limestone) deposits.
Kerala, a coastal belt in India. A study conducted in 1990 covered 76,000 households in 12 local councils of Karunagapally.
The radiation at Karunagapally has been assessed at 5 to 8 milisievert/year. In certain location on the coast, it is as high as 70 milisievert/year. Thorium was mined in this area from monazites.
Quote from Wikipedia: “This high level of radiation does not seem to have caused ill effects on the residents of the area and even possibly has made them slightly more radioresistant, which is puzzling and has been called “radiation paradox”. It has also been reported that residents have healthier and longer lives.
On the basis of this and other evidence including the fact that life had originated in a much more irradiated environment, some scientists have questioned the validity of linear no-threshold model, on which all radiation regulations currently depend.
Others point out that some level of radiation might actually be good for health and have a positive effect on population based on the controversial radiation hormesis model, by jump starting DNA repair mechanisms inside the cell. ”

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

Dato' Dr HW Looi says:

Dear NK Khoo,

The Problem: A Mountain of Lynas Waste ?

A reader once asked ” Would it be safe to say 132,000,000,000 bq will be resulting from 22,000 tonnes of Lynas waste even though it has only 6 bq per gm?”

Well, Thorium-232 produces only alpha rays (gamma rays from daughter isotopes are insignificant, please see below) which cannot pass through even a thin piece of paper or the surface of the skin.

If you have a lump of pure Thorium-232, all you need to do is to wrap it up in newspaper and that will stop all the alpha radiation from getting out!

Since alpha particles of Thorium-232 which decay with energies of 3.8 to about 4.8 MeV can travel only a couple of centimetres in air, only less than 50 micron in fluids and much less in solid material, even if you have a huge pile of Lynas waste, the external radiation would not increase by much because only a tiny percentage of thorium-232 atoms directly on the surface of the pile will be able to radiate out their alpha particles.

Those just below the surface will remain inside the pile. Each alpha particle will just pick up 2 electrons and be converted to the simple non-radioactive helium gas.

Even those apha particles from the surface will be converted to harmless helium gas after a few centimetres through the air.

So all that your mountain of Lynas waste will only “radiate” harmless non-radioactive Helium gas.

The radiation of 6 bq/gm from the weakly radioactive Thorium-232 in the Lynas waste is so low that even IAEA do not consider it significant and as such can be transported without any special permission.

One reader stated that although Thorium-232 may not be dangerous, all their “daughter” isotopes have very short half-lives like Radon-220 and these are highly radioactive, so how could we say that Thorium-232 is not dangerous.

Well, the reason is obvious. But I find great difficulty in explaining to the layman the reason why when an element with an extremely long half-life that decays into isotopes with very short half-life, there is minimal accumulation of the short half-life isotopes and as such do not build up into a large enough quantity to pose any significant hazard.

I will try to explain by this simple analogy.
If there are 2 million people waiting outside a stadium and 1 million people managed to get into the stadium after 14,000,000,000 years (half-life of Thorium-232), it means that you will see only 1 person getting into the stadium every 14,000 years.

But once in the stadium the half-life of the new person (half-life of Radon-220 from the Thorium-232 decay chain is only 55 seconds) is so short when compared with those outside (Thorium-232) that he has left the stadium almost immediately. Getting in is extremely slow but getting out is extremely fast!

Since only 1 person gets into the stadium every 14,000 years, if you look into the stadium you will see it as empty most of the time!

It is just like trying to fill up a bucket by a slow, slow drop by drop drip and the bucket has a big hole at the bottom. If you look into the bucket you will see practically little or no water in it!

Since the Lynas waste product has only 6 Bq/gm of radioactivity, the chance of detecting any significant amount of radon gas is pretty slim indeed.

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

Dato' Dr HW Looi says:

Dear NK Khoo,

By Jonathan Fun reply to Hon. Prof Chan’s Letter

Quote:

“I read with great interest the debate and evidences shown by both sides.

While acknowledging Prof. Chan’s arguments, doubts, concerns, and counter-evidences on the effects of Thorium, I must agree with Datuk Dr. Looi and Ng Ai Soo’s points in what I’d like to call “Selective Rejection”.

We all know the effects of Thorium to our health through the inhalation route; microscopic thorium dusts entering our bloodstream, majority of those amounts will be deposited in our bone marrows and stays there for the next 22 years, emitting alpha radiation, increasing risks to cancer, etc.

But again, consider Ng Ai Soo’s comment from Chan’s previous article :

” And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NOx, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.)

And, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons or Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air… and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.

Where do we store this waste? Does this waste go into making our roads or construction material? What is Lynas waste in comparison?! How did we manage to put up with that yearly radioactive and toxic waste, and plan to build more of the same, with no objection from you?

Be fair… if you want to protect us from industrial radiation pollution, then tackle the whole lot of them in proportion to their pollution, not just Lynas. Dr. Looi’s presentation of the facts is clear and persuasive compared with the unnecessary fear, uncertainty and doubt that taints your article in reply to him. ”

The keyword here IMHO is “Uncertainty”, which brings us back to the discussion of the “Precautionary Principle”.

There is nothing wrong being doubtful of the effects of Thorium, hence rejecting it, and there is nothing wrong being confident that Thorium wastes that will be produced by Lynas if they are given the green light to operate, are going to be safe, given the scientific facts that proves it.

But what I’d like to implore those hardcore Anti-Lynas/Anti-Rare Earth/Anti-Whatever friends out there to understand, is that when we make a stand, it must be based on a principle, and for the stand to be credible and fair, it must be applied across the board.

So we know iron/copper mines also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.

And we know rock phosphate fertilizer production facilities also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.

Hence, if the reason we are all so head over heals about throwing Lynas out of our shores is because of the potential hazards of Thorium, or the uncertainty that Thorium will be safe, then let our will be done. Reject Lynas. Get them out of the country. Shoo.

But we can’t let existing industries which are also producing Thorium wastes, like iron/copper mines and fertilizer plants, to continue operating as well. Reject any industry that produces Thorium wastes. Get them out of the country. Shoo.

Can we all agree on this stand? Else going all out to reject Lynas while allowing existing industries that also produces Thorium wastes to continue operation is just plain hypocritical. ”

Warmest regards,

Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

Dato' Dr HW Looi says:

Dear Simple Mind,

With regards to the radiological contrast media Thorotrast, I presume that what we have been talking about all this time is the intake of Thorium by ingestion or inhalation and not by deliberate intravenous infusion of a large quantity of Thorium for a medical and not accidental procedure.

I have known about the controversy of Thorotrast (a 25 cc vail of a 25% colloidal suspension of Thorium dioxide) since I was a medical student in Manchester about 45 years ago and in fact I have been collecting a fair amount of data with regards to this contrast media.

As I have said this was given as a contrast media via the vein and the dose of Thorium used was huge, though this depends on the type of radiological procedure done.

It had been estimated that as many as 4 million people were given this contrast in the 1930 to late 1950s.

It has been claimed that there was an increase in the incidence of cancers especially of the liver.

However, we need to consider a number of factors before we can be sure that this is the real culprit.

1) The radiation dose from those old X-ray machines in the 1930s are hundreds of times that of the present machines. When we do a contrast study we do not take just one X-ray, but many, sometimes more than 20 to 50.
So the patient was subjected to a huge dose of X-rays from these antique X-ray machines.

This huge dose of X-rays may be the cause of most of the cancers, we just do not know as most of the studies are unable to assess the X-ray’s dose. All these studies are done 20 to 30 years later.
So we cannot use other patients who have X-rays done in the 1930s to 1950s as a control group since most X-rays which do not need a contrast media consist of only 1 or 2 X-ray pictures.

2) The contrast studies are usually done for patients who are rather ill and may have multiple other disorders.
The cancers usually appear (as most cancers do) about 20 to 30 years later when the patients reach the “cancer” age. Because of this long lapse of cause and effect, all the studies are retrospective in nature.
And as you know, all retrospective studies are full of problems and inaccuracies.

3) A lot of these patients, have other disorders which may also lead to cancer like alcoholic cirrhosis and hepatitis B. In fact the first case of liver cancer I saw in Manchester was an old alcoholic with severe liver cirrhosis. But he also had Thorotrast contrast study more than 20 years earlier. Because of this history, the surgeon had to report him as a Thorotrast induced cancer.

4) With about 4 million by now old people, we are bound to come across a lot of cancer cases. So how many if any of these (taking into account all the above problems) are really caused by the radiation from the massive dose of intravenous Thorium-232… nobody can be really sure. If anybody says he can tell, then either he is lying or he does not know what he is saying.

I hope this will enlighten you a little.
And I still say “I have not seen or heard or found in the scientific literature any case of a person being injured or killed by inhalation or ingestion of Thorium-232!”

Ken says:

The comparison between Potassium and Thorium is nonsense.
Potassium is an essential nutrient/mineral that can be metabolized by human. Potassium stored in bone will not cause cancer like Thorium does. Internal contamination of Thorium isotope is extremely dangerous because radiation intensity follows the inverse-square law. Imagine how close your cells to radioactive particles when it goes to your body. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

I object Lynas plant for 1 simple reason. We cannot overcome the power of nature. 1 single rare flash flood or natural disaster and large area of Kuantuan could be inhabitable for a long time. Remember Fukushima, where the nuke reactors are managed by the brightest and the most intelligent people like Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah. They screwed UP BIG time because they lost the battle against mother nature.

http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/Thorium.pdf

Thorium is generally a health hazard only if it is taken into the body. External gamma exposure is not a major concern because thorium emits only a small amount of gamma radiation. Although thorium-229 has a much higher gamma component than either thorium-232 or thorium-230, thorium-229 comprises a very small fraction of natural thorium. (Note that if significant concentrations of radium occur along with thorium, which is common, the external gamma dose associated with the radium must also be addressed.) The major means of exposure to thorium are ingestion of food and water containing thorium and inhalation of thorium-contaminated dust. Ingestion is generally the main exposure concern, unless there is a nearby source of airborne dust containing thorium such as uranium mill tailings. Thorium is taken up in the body much more readily if inhaled rather than ingested (see table below), so both exposure routes can be important. The main health concern for environmental exposures is generally bone cancer.

nkkhoo says:

Who say Potassium-40 is needed in your body?

How you compare radioactivity level between Pottasium-40 and Thorium-232? Pottasium-40 or Thorium-232 is more dangerous in radioactivity?

What the risk if power failure? Lynas plant will be exploded like nuclear reactor?

There is a thing called back-up generator which my ex-company used whenever there is a power blackout.

Smoke from the cigarette should be banned first if inhalation of poisonous particulates in the air is your concern, not the Lynas.

Simple Person says:

i’m sorry to offend you.
__________________

Regarding to Dr Loo’s statement:”To be very frank, I have not seen or heard or found in the scientific literature of any case of proven lung disease, death or for that matter, any disease in humans caused by Thorium-232.”

I’m skeptical on this point, although I tend to believe and agreed that the risk of air-borne Thorium is low in Lynas plant.

Judging from your medical experience, by right, I guess, you must be well aware of the intoxication of Thorotrast* leads to well-documented cases of death due to cancer. So, I believe, your statement regarding Thorium safety is kind of “big” and not entirely correct. Moreover, check any MSDS of Thorium, you will find that it is rated as highly harzardous material.

*ThO2 – used as a contrast medium in X-ray diagnostics in the 1930s and 40s (use in some countries, such as the U.S., continued into the 1950s – wiki
*just do a quick dirty google search and you find plenty of scientific literature of Thorotrast

Thanks anyway.

nkkhoo says:

Contact Dr Looi directly for your doubt.

I have big heart to admit my mistake, but will not accept anyone puts his/her words in my mouth. Eating dead cat is not the option.

I have never mentioned anything about intoxication of Thorotrast. Keep your own words for yourself.

If you read other fact sheets from US government about thorium intoxication, no solid conclusion is drawn for thorium-232 on human fatality unless you inject high dose of thorium-232 in your body.

You should stop posting more comments which I will delete.

Simple Person says:

Intentionally deleted.

Mojo Jujur says:

BN cannot stop Lynas as it has obtained its election war chest from the Aussie firm?

Go Die (Good day) Australia?

nkkhoo says:

Australian company is more professional than Malaysian companies.

Anandan has sold his Tanjung to GLC for billions, the fund for BN in GE13 is already raised.

Simple Person says:

Haiz. I give you a international peer-reviewed original article which is here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10564929

Which you still can’t get it right and you are accusing me quoting the piece you yourself originally quoted:

http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/Thorium.pdf

This fact sheet is which you originally quoted NOT me.

I respect Dr Looi for his efforts in joining this discussion. He makes some legitimate points here.

nkkhoo says:

The fact sheet link is from your own original comment, go check your own comments.

When I quoted the link? Don’t put your stupid words in other mouth. I only mentioned “Source: IAEA.”

Now you accused me has modified your comment. What kind of honesty and professionalism?

This link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10564929 mentioned nothing about 3 points as listed by you. That is totally irrelevant to your fact sheet link. [You claim the link was added by me in your comment!]

Mind you, there are more articles or fact sheets touching on your point one if you search it carefully.

That is the lowest integrity person I have seen in internet. You are the first one to deny your own quoted link in your comment since I used internet in 1995.

You know exactly you can accuse me to modify your comments because I am a Moderator here. The readers have to take your wild accusation with a grain of salt.

Don’t wasting your time to post your comments in my blog again, otherwise when you lose your argument, you will accuse your comments are modified by someone.

I will ban you from further comments for my own integrity sake.

Those post comments in my blog should know I never change their comments. I either delete the whole comment or approve them without modification.

Dr. Looi claimed has learned the radioactive medicine for 40 year, anyone who believe his professional field should take his words with more confidence level [still not a truth in science]

HAJI BAKHIR says:

the proof is lay open in your one-sided texts. lol

HAJI BAKHIR says:

nkkhoo like those who have put money into Lynas will go all out to support Lynas so don’t waste time reasoning with him or Adnan Yaakob.

nkkhoo says:

Show your proof, otherwise go join Perkasa club to amok freely.

Jay Z Wong says:

Hi, what do you think about this viral article.
I’m neutral when it comes about the issue of Lynas as I see that both government and opposition have their own agenda.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3144538605932&set=a.1836958837255.103353.1038990122&type=1&theater

nkkhoo says:

I read some politicians used PPM unit which I am not sure is a correct radioactive measurement unit.

Part Per Million means nothing in radioactivity, more PPM does not mean more radioactive emissions and reverse is true also.

Like it or not, IAEA report is only report we should trust.

I am not sure how many people already read the IAEA report. The report is professional written with various recommendations for Lynas to rectify its weaknesses like building a permanent waste disposal facility.

Do you think Bosch Solar Cell plant in Penang is also building a permanent waste disposal facility? Please pose this question to Lim Guan Eng for answer.

Simple Person says:

Alright.

I think we have enough discussion here.

Let the netizens to be their own judge.

Thanks.

P/S 1: How many times you have <> in this series of discussion. Many times. Classic example is that you have clearly said that IT IS harmless to inhale 232-Thorium, but the article pointed the other way round i.e. harmful.

P/S 2: Did I use “IS deadly”? I use “SEEMS TO BE deadly”. It is not equal to “IS deadly”. So who’s the misinterpreter? You? Me? Dr Looi? or your English teacher?

P/S 3: The paper that I quoted is an international peer-reviewed scientific article, not like what have said have mentioned “a paper from internet” and definitely not your “funny” coke protest page. You seems to have problem in differentiating primary scientific article to secondary source.

P/S 4: I start to believe that you actually Lynas shareholder. Just kidding, take it easy.

P/S 5: Dato’ Dr. Looi, thanks for rectification our misinterpretation on radiation risk; but, I would even better if you can give some inputs of the potential health hazard of 232-thorium.

nkkhoo says:

Let me correct your so-called an international peer-reviewed scientific article.

http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/Thorium.pdf

This is a health fact sheet from a government agency, not a so-called an international peer-reviewed scientific article.

That is a shame if you still cannot differentiate a technical fact sheet is not a peer-reviewed scientific article.

Now you try to play “seem” word to cover your twisting and asshole. If I not questioning you, you definitely believe your “seem” is a 100% correct fact.

The technical paper I read only refers to point 1 in your comment, “harmless” is a correct conclusion. I am not misleading you and anyone, but merely refer to a particular paper.

My conclusion is still in fact-based basis, but it may be wrong in the paper with more extensive studies conducted later.

That why I say do not rely on one paper and take it as bible.

Let the experts in this radioactive medical to tell their professional answers.

A non-expert in radioactivity comes out a conclusion after reading a technical paper (a fact sheet!) is more dangerous [does not mean deadly] than knowing nothing.

Simple Person says:

Sorry, I’m the naive one who believes, using your own word here “I write and talk based on facts unlike Namewee”. If you aren’t keen to have a sensible debate and discussion here, that’s fine, but, no name person like us has the right to freely rectify your pseudoscience remarks here, just like Dr Looi stands out and pointed the wrong and misleading radiation risks.

Yes, common sense tells you that any heavy metal inhalation is harmful to body; but, inhalation of alpha emitter seems to be deadly UNLIKE what you have claimed in earlier paragraph -> harmless. So, that’s the reason why I demand you to provide positive evidence on your remarks to the Thorium has a relatively low health hazards.

So, the Anti-Lynas campaign results a good impact after all, as it reminds our Gov and Lynas to play super safe in this issue. At the very least now, rakyat and many parties can now keep an eye on this Lynas wastes issue.

Time to get back to my real work. See ya.

I hope that other No Name netizens can read our argument and be their own judge on this Lynas waste issue.

P/S: FYI, due to the medical advancement, many cancers can be effectively cured and prevented now e.g. there is vaccine for cervical cancer and treatment for skin cancer.

nkkhoo says:

“inhalation of alpha emitter seems to be deadly.”

That is a nonsense statement to scare off people, dangerous given in a technical report does not mean deadly.

You elevated it to “deadly”, then you will elevate it to fatally cancer risk even you inhale just one alpha particle, and then you may elevate it to DNA deformation risk.

In one day, Anti-Lynas will say thorium-232 can damage DNA because of your hard evidence.

This is your objective reading and fact? Misinterpreting or twisting a finding is worst than no reference.

The issue is not radioactive waste, is how to manage and disposal waste safely.

Almost all factories in Bolehland do not dispose industrial wastes safely, they are as harmful as Lynas wastes. The difference is one is labeled with radioactive and others are not.

Coke addictive can potentially causing cancer as thorum-232 if you eat it in high dose.

Technically, coke should be banned like Lynas plant because of its cancer risk if you support anti-Lynas argument.

Anti-Lynas is not wrong, but the argument on radioactive risk is wrong as Dr. Looi rightly pointed out.

For me, eating and inhaling alpha particle (in high dose) is no different than you consume toxic heavy metals.

Prevention is 1000 times better than curing.

Simple Person says:

Totally agree with you that we have to give pressure to Lynas, so that they come out with a super duper safe way of storing those radioactive materials.

How fair and careful Lynas is depending on enforcement of law by our government. Since, most of us (including you, i think) don’t really trust our current government, how you expect people to have confident with government. You yourself keep reminding that the unscrupulous furniture factory keep on releasing toxic wastes into Muar river, did you see our government stop them from doing so? YEs? NO?

I don’t quite understand your second paragraph regarding cancer. By the way, where u get the number 50% at the first place? Using your pseudo-science approach again?

Fighting cancer is one of the biggest effort in medical research.

nkkhoo says:

My condition to support Lynas was already mentioned in my post.

MOH did publish some data on causes of non-accident fatality for Malaysians, 50% are due to cancer. Don’t ask me to supply data, that is not my job. I am not writing thesis here, just a casual discussion with no name person. Shall I care?

Actually I do not need MOH data, my observation on those deceased in my new village is a good indicator that cancer is the main killer, second is heart attack and third is diabetics.

By waiting the result from the decades old of medical research on cancer, most living people today already seeing God and forefathers.

Simple Person says:

I’m not referring that as a bible, I’m merely pointing that you are giving inaccurate information and remind you to carefully comprehend data before you make a statement on blog especially when a professional doctor seemed to mostly agreed with your statements regarding Lynas wastes.

Moreover, you are the one who quoted that document at the first place.

At least, I have quoted one international peer-reviewed scientific article and a government document (pdf above) to back my argument, but I still haven’t see any positive evidence from you regarding the safety of inhaling 232-Thorium.

nkkhoo says:

I did not say my comments are 100% correct, the readers have to consult experts in nuclear field for 100% accurate info, not simply quoting a paper from internet.

Thorium is not needed in your body, what positive evidence do you need to ensure safety consumption? Commonsense should tell you that inhale and eat any heavy metals not needed by your body is harmful.

You do not need to read technical paper, commonsense will do for this kind of safety issue.

Simple Person says:

According that information, one may speculate that Thorium will be uptaken, deposited and possibly concentrated in the bone of the animal that have internalized Thorium thru inhalation, food and water intake. Will these Thorium persist in our food web and leads to un-reversible environmental consequences?

If APA gives Lynas a big pass, I guess and I hope, all Malaysians should feel safe about these Lynas wastes.

nkkhoo says:

Preventive measures to prevent radioactive materials leakage to environment is more important.

50% of us will be dying of cancer because of tons of chemical toxic and heavy metals absorbed and deposited into bodies through food, water and air. You can count out Thorium-232 in your cancer prevention program.

Simple Person says:

Thanks for information.

I think I found the document that you mentioned above, but it clearly stated that it is kind of DANGEROUS when someone inhaled 232-Thorium, UNLIKE what you said -> harmless!

From the article:
1) Most thorium that is inhaled or ingested in food and water is excreted within a few days, with only a small fraction being absorbed into the bloodstream
2) Thorium is generally a health hazard only if it is taken into the body
3) Some evidence of increased incidence of lung, pancreatic, and hematopoietic cancers was found in workers occupationally exposed to thorium via inhalation.

Sorry if I offend you, but I really hope that you can be more careful when mentioning such important issue.

http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/Thorium.pdf

Thanks again

nkkhoo says:

I only remembered point 1 which I said it’s harmless if it can be flushed out.

EMF risk to health is still debatable after decades of study by various organizations, so don’t simply take a single source as bible.

Simple Person says:

Is that IAEA document implying it is not that dangerous to inhale alpha particle? Could you please provide a link the IAEA document you mentioned above?

From understanding from this proper peer-reviewd scientific publication, the inhalation of small amount of alpha particle is harmful enough:

A line from the abstract from that article:
The stochastic effects of inhaled, insoluble particles of alpha- or beta-particle-emitting radionuclides were compared in dogs…………These results indicated that relatively low doses of alpha-particle radiation can induce pulmonary cancers, but relatively large doses of beta-particle radiation are required.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10564929

Thanks.

nkkhoo says:

I did not bookmark the link because I was searching IAEA’s Lynas report. You can add something like : PDF in Google search because the report in PDF.

The paper refers specifically to alpha particle from the thorim-232, not the generic alpha particles. Generally it says it’s harmless except a very small quantity will go into bone.

niceguy says:

Good post. Reason enough to keep browsing this blog.

From what I read (and I’m no expert), thorium could be the future source of energy because it is much more abundance than uranium.

nkkhoo says:

I will offer to keep WLP waste if I were rich enough as a future investment.

Simple Person says:

1) Dear Dr Looi, thanks for your clear and concise explanation, I’m now convinced and reassured that the alpha “radiation” from 232-Thorium is not quite an issue here for the workers and people in Kuantan.

2) In my opinion, the purpose of that Ramsay study is more to find out the biological mechanism protects the Ramsay people from high radiation, but not aiming to prove the safety of high radioactivity.

3) The fact that the high radioactive exposure Ramsar people experiencing indifferent cancer risk, has not, at all, proves that high level (260 mSV/yr) of radioactivity is safe to people other people. Finding from the study also suggests that the indifferent cancer risk in Ramsar people, might be due to the protection mechanism developed only in the Ramsar people that receive high radiation for generations i.e. Darwinian theory here. You can only access the high radioactive risk by putting an outsider into Ramsay 😀

3) The fact that less healthier body and low life expectancy of other Iran people, can be due to tons of other reasons not necessary related to radiation. You need a proper epidemiology study to find the true reason behind the different heaths and life expectancy.

4) Do you mind shed some light on what if someone inhaled 232-thorium – the alpha ray emitter?

5) A gram of 232-thorium is a considerable strong mutagen? say compared to the chemicals in a single cigarette ?

6) What’s the worse case scenario of improper management of 232-thorium? Is that possible that Lynas waste got contaminated into environment say some wild animals inhaled/internalized and concentrate 232-thorium in those animals’ body? What if human eat up the animals that possesed concentrated Thorium-232? Will the Thorium-232 get polluted into the food web?

I’m not expecting and demanding so called correct answer as you are not an environmental scientist, but I just want to discuss with you the possibilities and potential problems that might arose from improper management of Lynas wastes, especially in a second world country like Malaysia with relatively loose environmental law and regulations.

Thanks.

nkkhoo says:

Still no anti-Lynas people come forward to take my challenge, build a house (at my design) with Lynas waste for me. I am happily to own such free house.

4) Do you mind shed some light on what if someone inhaled 232-thorium – the alpha ray emitter?

Most Thorium-232 alpha particles will be flushed out through urines and feces in a few days. Source: IAEA technical paper.

HAJI BAKHIR says:

Recent results from a study of thorium lung burdens and health effects among miners in China’, Chen XA, Cheng YE, Rong Z, Journal of Radiological Protection, 2005

The ores that Chinese miners were exposed to in Bayun Obo Rare-Earth and Iron Mine contained 400 ppm of thorium. The rare earth oxide concentrates that will be arriving shortly at Kuantan port will have 1600 ppm of thorium. The US Public Health Service (1990) reports that the natural background level in soil is typically 6 ppm of thorium.

nkkhoo says:

IAEA or other organization is more authoritative in radioactivity?

Malaysia lawyer buruk also claim she has more expertise in nuclear science than a PAS nuclear scientist.

HAJI BAKHIR says:

Alternative views from another Doctor :

Dr David KL Quek, President, Malaysian Medical Association (MMA), May 26, 2011 says “No monetary returns of whatever Foreign Direct Investment and its spinoffs can outweigh possible radiation and/or other health risks, which can wreak harm on our citizens, perhaps for as long as the half-lives of some of the extremely toxic radionuclide waste products —which in some cases might be ‘forever’!”

nkkhoo says:

“as long as the half-lives of some of the extremely toxic radionuclide waste products”

This is a ridiculous statement. I am not a nuclear scientist, but I can say Dr. Quek is talking nut about radioactive half-life.

How he got the conclusion on Malaysia public health risk? Did he publish any technical paper on radioactive correlation with the Malaysia public health in the international journal? What his academic qualification?

Hadi Awang said don’t consult the rubber expert when you are talking about palm oil.

Pak Hainan says:

buried them in the middle of Australia (deserts)

nkkhoo says:

Thorium is a black gold for future nuclear reactor fuel.

Pak Hainan says:

Which location beyond the borders of Malaysia that would accept Lynas Corp’s purportedly massive amounts of toxic waste should a suitable dumpsite be unavailable domestically ?

nkkhoo says:

May be Australian government is willing to take back WLP residue for a short-term basis under Uncle Sam pressure. Rare earth metals are strategic materials to US military and other western world.

Pak Hainan says:

Dr Looi
Can you be sure that other future potential hazardous by products (beyond thorium) are not produced by Lynas ? Knowing poor maintenance culture of Malaysia, nothing is certain and can be exploited by money temptation !
Hope you keep Malaysians alert should any danger looming if not now yet.

nkkhoo says:

There are tiny dose of uranium and other radioactive substances in the residue besides thorium, but IAEA does not consider them as life threatening radioactive.

If you are working in slider fab in Penang Seagate, go check how many chemical solutions are used and discharged as untreated wastes to Penang sea.

nkkhoo says:

This is how a so-called high EQ adult blogger launched a personal attack against Dr. Looi for expressing his opinion and presenting some facts.

http://zorro-zorro-unmasked.blogspot.com/2011/12/stick-to-your-grapes-will-you.html

Not a single fact to rebut Dr. Looi except name calling.

Someone asks me to debate with Zorro, I have to say I am not interested to debate with such a personality.