From the New Straits Times Press, Ahmad Ibrahim, Fellow of Academy of Sciences, Malaysia Quote:
“La Rochelle, the ‘Lynas of France’
Many would be surprised that La Rochelle has for decades been hosting a rare earths processing plant, similar to the one planned in Malaysia.
The La Rochelle facility, which belongs to France’s Rhodia Group, has for years been operating like Lynas. Forty years to be exact. And there has been no adverse health and safety report in the tourist town.
The Rhodia company is an active player in the rare earths business. It is a leading processor of rare earths. In fact, it’s the only fully integrated industrial player to have manufacturing operations and raw material supply both within and outside China.
The plant in La Rochelle has been in operation for more than 50 years.
In the early years, the plant processed rare earths ore concentrates from Australia and China just like Lynas would. For 40 years, the plant was operated in this manner, producing cerium for the world market.
The radioactive thorium residues have been stored within the plant’s 40ha site for the past 50 years. During storage, the residues are regularly monitored by the country’s regulatory authority, the equivalent of our Atomic Energy Licensing Board (AELB).
They believe the stored thorium salts will become a fuel of the future.
What is clear is that the rare earths processing facility in La Rochelle has been operating for more than five decades without harming the population. Instead, La Rochelle has thrived over the years as an attractive tourist destination not only for the French but also for holiday-makers from other European countries and even as far away as the United States.
Through the deployment of stringent health and safety standards, the chemical plant has been of no consequence to the local community.
Instead, it has contributed to the local economy not only in terms of job opportunities but also tax revenues.
After visiting La Rochelle, it beats me why there are still people who are so hung up on Lynas.”Unquote
Quote: AELB (Atomic Energy Licensing Board, Malaysia):
Malaysia was the world’s no. 1 producer of tin. Along with tin, there’s always Thorium and Uranium and therefore this is not Malaysia’s first facility, AELB is has experience to handle this, to overcome this and AELB is prepared.
THERE ARE MORE THAN 10 FACILITIES THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR TO LYNAS.
SOME OF THEM ARE PRODUCING HIGHER RESIDUES, HIGHER CONCENTRATION OF URANIUM AND THORIUM.
AELB has been able to regulate and control these factories, so it is based on AELB experience and the experience of the industry abroad.” Unquote
QUESTION: WHY IS IT THAT THERE ARE NO DEMONSTRATIONS BY
THE ANTI-LYNAS FOOT-SOLDIERS AGAINST THESE 10 CHEMICAL
PLANTS ALREADY IN MALAYSIA THAT ARE PRODUCING “WASTES
WITH HIGHER CONCENTRATIONS OF URANIUM AND THORIUM”?
ANSWER: 100% PURE POLITICS FROM TOXIC RADIOACTIVE POLITICIANS !
Warmest regards,
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
nkkhoo & dr looi
not sure if you both watch Astro AEC Channle 301 last Friday nite 11pm half hour news reporting on the toxic (not thorium radiaton)from rare earth process plant ? I am sure this excellent semi documentary reporting should create awareness about the danger of rare earth processing as evident in the by product waste creating havoc in California and Inner Mongolia plants. The resultant water pollution cause diseases to the living folks around the areas and China (95% rare earth activity od the world) has ceased operation there pending health impact assessment and the recovery of the polluted water zones there. This program surely create more supporters against Lynas set-up at Gebeng !
So apparently Thorium is not the major concern which you should highlight. The treatment of by-product if not properly executed could pose serious danger to the eco-system.
I hope dr looi can explain to us from this perspective rather than focusing on radiation matter. Thks.
**************************************************************************************************************
TO DANNY: (Please see the comments below as well with regards to the wastes problem) !
THE VIDEO OF POLLUTION ETC. ARE ALL ABOUT THE RARE EARTH MINES AND AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES THE LYNAS PLANT IS A STATE OF ART MODERN CHEMICAL PLANT AND NOT A RARE EARTH MINE.
AND KUANTAN FOLKS ARE NOT MINERS, THE MINERS ARE STILL IN A PLACE CALLED MOUNT WELD IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA.
IF THERE IS ANY AIR POLLUTION OR WATER POLLUTION FROM THIS MINE, THE AUSTRALIAN MINERS ARE THE ONES WHO WILL HAVE A PROBLEM AND NOT THE KUANTAN FOLK !
ADSORPTION AND SOLUBILITY
“Thorium-232 is strongly bound (adsorbed) by soil especially clay soil. The Thorium concentration in the clay particles is about 500,000 % higher than in the water between the clay particles.
So, it cannot be leached out by water and pollute the rivers. Even if the clay soil is washed into the rivers and sea it will not do any harm as the thorium will still be strongly attached (adsorbed) to the clay and will not dissolve into the water.”
Quote:
Salesman forgot to tell you that the WLP waste will be roasted in concentrated acid. And in that form, thorium is highly soluble. Unquote
The SOLUBILITY of a substance in a solvent like water and ADSORPTION of the substance are 2 separate properties and not the same.
In nature Thorium-232 is found in the form of Monazite (Ce,La,Nd,Th)PO4 i.e. the phosphate of Thorium-232. This is completely insoluble in water.
The next most common ore is Thorite (ThSiO4) which has a gram molecular weight of 324.12 gm. The oxide of Thorium is also present in nature. The silicates and oxides are completely insoluble in water.
Practically most of the other thorium compounds are artificially created in the laboratory. The most famous is Thorium dioxide (ThO2) which was used as a radiological contrast media and because it is also insoluble, it is administered intravenously as a colloidal dispersion of thorium-232 dioxide (Thorotrast)
Huge doses of 25cc to 50 cc of a 25%solution of Thorium dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into the vein or artery in the contrast radiological studies.
The other Thorium salts like the fluorides, chlorides, Iodides, sulfides, selenides, tellurides, nitrides, nitrates, sulphates and other complexes are all artificially synthesized.
All of these have varying degrees of solubility in water. The most soluble will be the nitrates, chlorides and to a lesser degree sulphates. As mentioned above, the oxides, silicates and phosphates are insoluble.
Metallic Thorium-232 is of course totally insoluble in water.
However, whether Thorium-232 is in the SOLUBLE OR INSOLUBLE FORM, IT IS STILL STRONGLY ADSORBED BY CLAY AND CANNOT BE LEACHED OUT BY WATER.
The extremely dangerous herbicide Paraquat is a liquid and is extremely soluble in water. Although it is extremely soluble and dangerous, IT IS NOT LEACHED OUT OF THE SOIL and pollute the rivers because it is STRONGLY ADSORBED BY CLAY SOIL JUST LIKE THORIUM-232.
So Lynas can continue their acid roasting of the ore and with the usual procedures taken, it should not be a problem.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
Dr Looi has highlighted chemical wastes are more harmful than thorium in Lynas case.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/too-soon-to-give-lynas-plant-the-thumbs-up-says-scientist
waste product management is the issue not thorium radiation.
foolish to compare Malaysia (developing country) with france (developed advanced country) where majority of people have 3rd world mentality unlike scientist like Dr Looi.
Then you prefer to compare with third world Africa for your own ego?
This is the exact UMNO’s mindset like you.
EVEN THE SEX WORKERS IN KUANTAN WILL BENEFIT !
Even a primary school child should know that the construction of a multi-billion dollar industrial plant would bring enormous financial benefits to the local community as well as to the country.
Construction of the plant had provided a substantial boost to suppliers of commodities like concrete and steel and manufacturers of hundreds of other components. For example, the plant had used thousands of cubic metres of concrete—as well as
• Thousands of tons of steel and miles of piping
• Hundreds of miles of electric wiring and hundreds of electrical components and all these are supplied by our local contractors.
The construction of the plant itself would had added hundreds of millions to the gross domestic product.
Each year, the plant will generate billions in sales of the rare earth (economic output) and millions more in total labour income. These figures include both direct and secondary effects. The direct effects reflect the plant’s expenditures for goods, services and labour. The secondary effects include subsequent spending attributable to the presence of the plant and its employees as plant expenditures filter through the local economy (e.g., restaurants and shops buying goods and hiring employees).
And the subsequent production of the plant is expected to be in the billions of ringgit and this is considered to be part of the country’s gross domestic product (GDP). Billions more would be added to the GDP as a result of the spin-off effect.
And when our GDP is increased by the billions, the government will be allowed to print more billions of ringgit (CREATING MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR) to pay for the schools, hospitals, subsidies and scholarships etc for the people, without any devaluation of our ringgit by the foreigners.
Key Facts
• Each year, the plant will generate millions to billions of ringgit as a spin-off effect in sales of goods and services in the local community and millions more in total labour income.
• Operation of the plant creates more than 350 highly paid permanent jobs. These jobs pay much more than those working the super markets or places like Kentucky Fried Chicken.
• The permanent jobs at the plant create an equivalent number of additional jobs in the local area to provide the goods and services necessary to support the plant work force (e.g., grocery stores, dry cleaners, car dealers). Even the sex workers in Kuantan would benefit!
• Construction of the new plant had created up to thousands of jobs at peak construction.
•
• Local contractors had benefited enormously from the construction of the plant, in terms of hundreds of millions of ringgit
•
• The yearly production of billions of ringgit of rare earth will add billions to our GDP and produce billions in export earnings (even though the money belongs to Lynas share holders, the national statistics will show up as our own in terms of GDP growth and export growth).
The economic job multiplier effect of any industrial plant is 4 to 5. So although the Lynas plant gives direct employment to 350 high paying jobs to the Kampong folks, the actual number of jobs created is more in the region of 1,750 !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjT1kUAy_08&feature=player_detailpage
Why do we have to give Lynas the 12 yrs tax free incentive?
Quote Optiplex330:
“Giving tax break is very common to entice people to set up business. If you are an Indian or Chinese your forebear coming from India or China know that very well. They were enticed to come to Malaysia to open up the country, and land were practically given free. Old people told me their land rental is a single pepper corn. Those who don’t know about tax break know zero about businesses. Having said that, I think the maximum is 10 yrs so Lynas is unusual in that it is given 12 years.
A classic example: Businesses have to give Bumi 30% share but when Intel came to Penang, they were allowed SPECIAL treatment and don’t have to give a single share to Bumi (may be this explain the extra 2 yrs tax break?). Why? This is because the government badly wanted Intel because when they come, they will bring along an entire electronic industry to Malaysia. So while government do not directly benefited from Intel, the follow on industry created by Intel greatly benefited Malaysia.
And also for this reason, those who think Lynas produces only about 300 jobs and no tax revenue for Malaysia are just being short sighted. They don’t know that because of Lynas, a Green Technology industry could be born and Siemens is the 1st to announce coming precisely because of Lynas. But because of Anti-Lynas, Siemens may pull out so there go more jobs and tax revenue for Malaysia.”
In Other Words, The Plant WILL Boost Local and Country’s Economy.
The Lynas plant WILL provide substantial economic benefits during the decades of operation. The jobs, employee’s taxes, and direct and secondary spending WILL strengthen the economy.
SO DO NOT ASK THE NON-PHYSICAL and RATHER CHILDISH QUESTION OF WHAT BENEFIT DO MALAYSIA GET FROM THE LYNAS PLANT!
Dato’ Dr Looi
I fail too see your points on your so called “enormous economic multiplier effects”,
(1) 350 high paying jobs to the Kampong folks ?? you’re overtly optimistic here, 350 jobs is nothing “enormous” and certainly the high paying jobs would likely be the professionals, and not unskilled labourerers
(2)plant will generate billions in sales of the rare earth ?? billions for Lynas’s owners (read: foreign investors, not Malaysians) the potential risks and 12 year tax break (sales tax, business tax amounting to billions) does not equate to the “not so enormous” indirect effects of 350 workers on local businesses
(3) How can “Lynas’s production and sales become part of Malaysia’s gross domestic product (GDP)”? ?? first, Malaysians don;t own Lynas, investors in Lynas aren;t Malaysians, Lynas is given a 12-year tax break, there is no provisions in the agreement to give Malaysia any of its production for free. The best case is that there will be a knockdown effect of cheaper prices from increased competition with player in China – but that also means Malaysia will be buying the stuff at market prices, like everyone else. How does that make Malaysia any more competitive that the current green technology players? I can;t see what you see..
So by any measure, you so called claims of enromous effects are inaccurate by a long shot, and you’re misleading to claim it as such
By take on Lynas, No one doubts rare earths are key to unlocking the full potential of solar, wind, green energy. Similarly rare earths was key in unlocking the digital age with semiconductors, intel chips. Malaysia successfully embraced the digital age and Malaysians became online citizens. If Malaysians can do that in the past WITHOUT the need of any rare earth plant THEN, similarly, why do Malaysia need LYNAS GEBENG now to embrace green energy? Europe certainly did not need a polluting rare earth plant to excel in green technology. Nor did Japan. Nor did Australia. Nor did the USA. LYNAS GEBENG would have little impact for green technology in Malaysia, simply because it is not a Green Tech Company, also LYNAS aren’t giving Malaysia any rare earth products for free, and it is likely that LYNAS will be selling rare earth materials to us at MARKET PRICE. If that is the case, why not just tell LYNAS to pollute somewhere else, we will just buy the end products to develop our GREEN TECH. It is not that Malaysia have any rare earth deposits, so what is the use of LYNAS GEBENG then? Why did Australia not build LYNAS there itself where all the deposits are? Why ship it expensively 1000s km to Malaysia at extra cost? And if Malaysia’s 12 year tax break is the reason, then certainly a company bent on profits operating a potentially poisoning rare earth plant is certainly not something we need or want. What is Malaysia really in for then? The way I see it, only some connected corrupts will benefit, we will be inheriting highly polluting harsh chemical industries and potentially radioactive wastes from LYNAS and then after 12 years tax free and the rare earth bandwagon is gone, what do we get? Let Bukit Merah be that lesson.
If the main players of Green Tech in Europe has been importing rare earth from China to Europe, what keeps them from importing rare earth from Malaysia to Europe? Whence is the “rare earth unlocks green tech” for Malaysia? At best, one or two manufacturers will build a manufacturing plant near Gebeng making downstream products to sell to Malaysia.
HAVE A LOOK AT ALL THESE VIDEOS
Karam Singh Videos:
Penang Stadium:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RPOGzrqu1Vg
Che Rosli TV3 interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjT1kUAy_08&feature=player_detailpage
Kilang Selamat..MB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0MFxBkxNX6g
Waste Product Explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1_7kdUomQ70
DURING A PSC (Parliamentary Select Committee) MEETING:
Quote from New Straits Times:
“Earlier, the committee and members of the public who watched the hearing at UMP Chancellery lobby were shocked when a lecturer from the university’s Industrial Science and Technology Faculty told the committee that he had been dealing with rare earth for more than 20 years without any adverse effects to his health.
“I EVEN USED MY BARE HANDS WHEN EXTRACTING RARE EARTH
ELEMENTS BUT TO DATE, THE RADIOACTIVE LEVEL IN MY BODY IS
VERY LOW,” SAID PROFESSOR JOSE RAJAN FROM KERALA, INDIA.
Rajan explained that the existing technology, including those available in India, had matured and could handle radioactive materials and waste effectively.
“We must educate the people like what we did in Kerala. We also faced the opposition in the initial stage (of the rare earth industry) but with accurate information and the right approach, even the protesters can be educated,” he said.” Unquote
Comparison of Radioactivity in Bq (Specific Activity: number of atoms decaying in 1second)
Pure freshly separated Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium (3 different isotopes) in our body and food = 31.825 Bq/gm
Artificially created Plutonium-238 = 634,000,000,000 Bq/gm (1/2 life=87.7 years)
Monazite ore from Amang or Tin Tailings in Malaysia = 284 Bq/gm
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm
It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant within a radius of 1 km is only 0.002 mSv/yr.
In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr. This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.
Dosage in Biological Effect in mSv.
Sleeping next to someone for 8 hours 0.02 mSv/yr (10x Lynas worst case)
Sleeping in wooden house = 0.20 mSv/yr (100x Lynas worst case)
Smoking a pack of cigarettes daily 0.20 mSv/yr (100x Lynas worst case)
Slag brick and granite house = up to 2.0 mSv/yr (1,000x Lynas worst case)
Chest X-ray = 0.10 mSv
Medical or dental X-ray 0.39 mSv
CT Scan (Chest) = 10 mSv
CT Fluoroscopy of abdomen and pelvis 6 to 90 mSv (median=31 mSv)
(Source: UNSCEAR and EPA and IAEA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjT1kUAy_08&feature=player_detailpage
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London).
Lynas radioactive and toxic waste will polute our air and water?
Kuantan People Not Miners and Lynas plant is not a rare earth mine.
Quote:
“vast tracts of lands and thousands of square kilometres have been rendered hazardous, with toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies.” Unquote
I HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING THAT KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT MINERS IN THE RARE EARTH OR URANIUM OR THORIUM MINES.
The ” with toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies.”,
ARE FROM THE MINES AND NOT FROM THE MODERN REFINING CHEMICAL PLANTS!
PLEASE DO NOT KEEP ON REFERRING US IN KUANTAN AND COMPARING US TO “THE WORKERS IN THE MINES EXPOSED TO THORIUM BY INHALATION OF FINE PARTICLES !
” Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.”
AND NOBODY FROM LYNAS IS GOING AROUND IN KUANTAN INJECTING US WITH THORIUM DIOXIDE !!
I REPEAT: KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT RARE EARTH OR THORIUM MINERS !
The rare earth miners in the case of the Lynas Rare Earth Plant are still in a place called Mount Weld in Western Australia !
If there is any long term lung problem, the Australians are the ones who will be getting those problems and not the Kuantan people.
Kuantan people are just ordinary traders, office workers, taxi drivers or just hanging around doing nothing in the air-conditioned malls.
It is tantamount to claiming that since workers in the granite quarries and underground tin mines developed severe lung disease (silicosis) and lung cancer from inhaling dust containing silica (sand), the millions of tons of sand in our beaches should be relocated to somewhere safe or shipped back to…?Australia.
Definite evidence that crystalline silica (Sand, Sio2) is associated with an increased rate of lung cancer led the International Agency for Research on
Cancer (IARC) to conclude in 1997 that crystalline silica is a known human
carcinogen.
You can find the data even in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_1_carcinogens
Normally the IARC list do not detail the conditions which is attached to the agent before it can be deemed to be carcinogenic.
You can find the data in the IARC monograph when they approved the labelling of Thorium-232 as a carcinogen.
For instance even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.
The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.
The same condition apply to Thorium-232 i.e.
” Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.”
Practically all the data on Thorium-232 and cancer comes from the intravenous injection of Thorotrast.
In the past where huge doses of 25cc to 50 cc of a 25%solution of Thorium dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into the vein for contrast radiological studies, a very small number out of the 4 million or so patients were believed to have developed cancers 20 to 30 years later in their old age.
I repeat: NOBODY FROM LYNAS IS GOING AROUND IN KUANTAN INJECTING US WITH THORIUM DIOXIDE !!
Part of the IARC list of Carcinogens in :
• Schistosoma haematobium (infection with)
• Silica, crystalline (inhaled in the form of quartz or cristobalite from occupational sources)
• Solar radiation
• Talc containing asbestiform fibres
• Tamoxifen5
• 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin
• Thiotepa (1,1′,1″-Phosphinothioylidynetrisaziridine)
•Thorium-232 and its decay products, administered intravenously as a colloidal dispersion of thorium-232 dioxide
• Treosulfan
• ortho-Toluidine
• Vinyl chloride
• Ultraviolet Radiation
• X-Radiation and Gamma radiation
Best regards,
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_1_carcinogens
http://mforum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=644399
In this letter, Dr Looi’s cites the Argonne National Lab’s fact sheet on thorium to argue that only a miniscule portion of thorium-232 which is ingested via food or water is absorbed into the bloodstream, of which only 4 per cent gets deposited in the liver where it is retained with a biological half-life of 700 days.
He neglects to mention that thorium-232 is much more readily absorbed into the human body via an inhalation route, and furthermore that 70 per cent of the amount entering the bloodstream gets deposited in bone where it is retained with a biological half-life of about 22 years, all that while irradiating the much more radio-sensitive blood-forming tissues there with highly mutagenic alpha-particles (20 times more damaging to cellular genetic material than beta or gamma radiation).
Could this be the reason for the cluster of childhood leukaemias observed among the children of Bukit Merah? (Recall also the inverse square law — the intensity of radiation from a radioactive particle a metre away from a human body increases a trillion-fold when that same particle sits at micron-level distances on the body’s cells and tissues.)
Dear Dr Looi HW,
Kindly with your expertise reply and refute the statements below. Thks.
http://mforum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=644399
The unpublished letter to The Sun.
Dr Looi Hoong Wah, in dismissing the Kuantan community’s apprehensions over Lynas rare earths refinery in Gebeng (The Sun, March 7, 2012), has glossed over a number of points:
1. Potassium-40, when absorbed, is distributed more uniformly throughout the human body, mostly in muscle tissue which is among the least radio-sensitive of the body’s tissues (the most radio-sensitive tissues are the lymphoid organs, bone marrow, blood, testes, ovaries, intestines)
2. Thorium-232 is very poorly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract, but much more readily via an inhalation route. Seventy per cent of thorium entering the bloodstream localises to the bones where it is retained with a biological half-life of 22 years, all that while irradiating the blood-forming tissues with alpha-particles which are 20 times more damaging than gamma or beta radiation.
3. In contrast, potassium-40 is excreted from the body much more rapidly, with a biological half-life of 30 days.
4. The net result of all this: the lifetime cancer mortality risk per Curie of inhaled thorium-232 is 200 times that of inhaled potassium-40, and 2,000 times that of ingested potassium-40 (1 Curie = 37 GBq).
5. The “safe thresholds” of 1 mSv/yr (public) and 20 mSv/yr (occupational) that Dr Looi, Dr Che Rosli Che Mat (MP, Hulu Langat), Lynas, AELB, and IAEA repeatedly invoke are derived from ICRP risk models which are currently under critical scrutiny and challenge, in the wake of excess childhood leukaemia near nuclear power plants that can’t be explained by radiation exposures which are much below the “safe thresholds”. A UK expert panel for instance (2004, http://www.cerrie.org (http://www.cerrie.org/) ) could not arrive at a consensus regarding the health risks of low-level exposure to internal emitters (inhaled or ingested radioactive particles). Opinions among the UK panel members ranged from negligible adverse effects to an underestimation of risk by at least a 100-fold.
6. In short, nobody really knows at this point how hazardous the Lynas refinery may turn out to be, given that much of the radioactive solid wastes will be in powdery form, i.e. respirable as suspended particulates, or ingestable from contaminated surfaces.
7. In asserting that the LAMP refinery is unquestionably safe, Dr Looi, Dr Che Rosli, Lynas and AELB have recklessly abandoned the precautionary principle. The Kuantan-Kemaman community may end up as lab rats in a natural experiment.
********************************************************************
The Hon Prof. Chan :
QUOTE:
Quote from the Hon. Professor “…childhood leukaemias observed among the children of Bukit Merah? (Recall also the inverse square law — the intensity of radiation from a radioactive particle a metre away from a human body increases a trillion-fold when that same particle sits at micron-level distances on the body’s cells and tissues.)
ANSWER by Ng Ai Soo
“The inverse square law applies to trillions and trillions of particles, not just the one particle. That one particle IS the radiation only “dilutes” in a quantum sense… it otherwise remains one particle no matter how far it is from the source… so the cellular damage by that one particle is the same, no matter how far it travelled to get into the cell. But it must survive that journey into the cell and for different particles the survival rates are different.
The Hon. Prof. Chan
A quick response to Ng Ai Soo (?): I’m referring to macroscopic radioactive particles (e.g. thorium-containing dusts), not to a radioactive atomic nucleus nor sub-atomic particles.
Comment by Me.
1. In addition to the clarification by Ng Ai Soo of the inappropriateness in invoking the inverse square law to just one particle, if we assume that the intensity is increased by a trillion fold, an alpha particle from Thorium-232 with an energy of 4 MeV is magnified by a factor of 1 trillion, the energy would be 0.64 Joules and this is so “intense” that all the cells that are hit, will be vaporized. We know that DEAD cells do not and cannot turn into cancer cells!
2. Even if we are referring to thorium-containing dusts in Bukit Merah and “not to a radioactive atomic nucleus nor sub-atomic particles,”
it would not work either because at 1 metre away, alpha particles from the Thorium-232 can travel about a couple of centimetres, and since the cells are subjected to an intensity of radiation at 1 metre = 0 units.
Therefore at micron level, 0 multiplied by 1 Trillion is still = 0 units
This shows that if we use retrograde calculations in these situations, we can end up with some rather embarrassing results.
QUOTE:
: “Dr Looi’s cites the Argonne National Lab’s fact sheet on thorium to argue that only a miniscule portion of thorium-232 which is ingested via food or water is absorbed into the bloodstream, of which only 4 per cent gets deposited in the liver where it is retained with a biological half-life of 700 days.”
ANSWER:
” I have never quoted the Argonne National-Lab’s fact sheet in any of my postings. This is just a figment of the fertile but confused imagination of a person infected by the highly dangerous anti-lynas virus.
QUOTE:
” Allow me also to bring to Dr Looi’s attention a 1993-1994 study of male miners at the Bayun Obo rare earths and iron mine in Inner Mongolia which was reported in the Journal of Radiological Protection in 2005.
In that study, highly dust-exposed miners had 5.15 times the age-adjusted lung cancer rate compared to the rate among Chinese males in the general population. ”
ANSWER:
It was claimed that a 20 year study in one of the largest rare earth mine, the Bayun Obo mine has shown that inhalation Thorium has proven to cause lung cancer. The number of miners in 2001 were 6,983 of which 3016 were exposed to dense dust in the mine.
After correcting for the heavy smoking, there was an excess of 10 cases of lung cancer in workers who had worked for about 30 years or so in the mine.
But this study cannot exclude crystalline silica (SiO2) in the dust as being the cause of the lung cancers. Silica is a confirmed carcinogen while Thorium by inhalation or ingestion is not.
SILICA IS A CONFIRMED GROUP 1 CARCINOGEN by inhalation whereas Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.” (IARC).
QUOTE: ”
The “safe thresholds” of 1 mSv/yr (public) and 20 mSv/yr (occupational) that Dr Looi, Dr Che Rosli Che Mat (MP, Hulu Langat), Lynas, AELB, and IAEA repeatedly invoke are derived from ICRP risk models which are currently under critical scrutiny and challenge, IN THE WAKE OF EXCESS CHILDHOOD LEUKAEMIA NEAR NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS that can’t be explained by radiation exposures which are much below the “safe thresholds”.
ANSWER:
The British study (COMARE) published in 2010 clearly showed that there is NO INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF LEUKAEMIA CASES in young children living near nuclear power plants.
This study which covers a period of over 35 years is far more comprehensive than the French study which covers only a period of 5 years.
The research, conducted by scientists on the Committee of the Medical Aspects of Radiation in the Environment (COMARE), found only 20 cases of childhood leukaemia within 5 km (3.1 miles) of nuclear power stations between 1969 and 2004.
The rate was virtually the same as in areas where there were no nuclear plants.
A study on Germany, published in 2007, did find a significantly increased risk, but the COMARE team said these findings were probably influenced by an unexplained leukaemia cluster near a nuclear plant in Krummel, north Germany, that lasted from 1990 to 2005.
Excluding Krummel, evidence for an increased leukaemia risk among young children living close to German nuclear power plants was “extremely weak”, it said.
The French study found that between 2002 and 2007 (only 5 years), 14 children under the age of 15 living in a 5-kilometre radius of France’s 19 nuclear power plants had been diagnosed with leukaemia.
This number of cases (14 in 5 years) is so small that even a small unaccounted unknown factor would lead to a false statistical result.
QUOTE:
“The US Public Health Service (1990) reports that the natural background level in North American soil is typically ~ 6 ppm of thorium.”
ANSWER:
AVERAGE MALAYSIAN SOIL = 20 ppm OF THORIUM
Nick Tsurikov, Radiation Safety Expert: ” THE MAJORITY OF THIS LYNAS “WASTE” WILL HAVE ONLY HALF THE THORIUM THAN IN NORMAL MALAYSIAN SOIL.
So, in fact most of Lynas residues are only half as radioactive as the sand the kids all over Malaysia play in the kindergartens” (Note: Sand or crystalline SiO2 is also classified as a group 1 Carcinogen by IARC).
If you do look through the Lynas RIA together with UN (not IAEA) reports – you will clearly see that two most ‘voluminous’ residues from LAMP will have less than 12 parts per million of thorium – and the average Malaysian soil – 20 parts per million of thorium. Of course, the third ‘residue stream’ will have about 1500 ppm of thorium and will need to be managed appropriately
QUOTE:
“A UK expert panel for instance (2004, http://www.cerrie.org : ttp://www.cerrie.org/) could not arrive at a consensus regarding the health risks of low-level exposure to internal emitters (inhaled or ingested radioactive particles). Opinions among the UK panel members ranged from negligible adverse effects to an underestimation of risk by at least a 100-fold.”
ANSWER:
Quote: Nick Tsurikov, Radiation Safety Expert “The point that I would like to make is to illustrate clearly that ECRR “100-200 times” factors cannot possibly be correct – have a look:
The ‘official’ risk of getting cancer from radiation exposure is 1 in 20,000 per 1 milliSievert of dose. So, if the hazard is ‘understated’ by, say, 200 times – it becomes 1 in 100, per 1 mSv of dose.
Thousands of people in Malaysian amang industry and in heavy mineral sands industry world-wide have been exposed to about 5 mSv every year for (let’s say, on average) 6 years of working life, so their cumulative dose was 30 mSv.
WHICH MEANS THAT IF ECRR IS CORRECT, EVERY THIRD WORKER IN THE AMANG INDUSTRY WOULD BE DEAD FROM CANCER BY NOW !
And what about those who were exposed to about 20 mSv for five years or more (in any industry, uranium included) – in accordance with the ECRR coefficients – the chance is 1 in 1, so they are all dead from cancer by now…
I do not see any cancer epidemic happening… What about all the tin miners in Malaysia in 1950′s-1970′s: they all should’ve died within several years after starting their work (as their coefficient would be close to 5 to 1…) Just some points for general consideration…” Unquote.
>4K Anti- Lynas QUOTE:
Potassium-40, when absorbed, is distributed more uniformly throughout the human body, mostly in muscle tissue which is among the least radio-sensitive of the body’s tissues, Thorium entering the bloodstream localises to the bones where it is retained with a biological half-life of 22 years
ANSWER:
When Potassium is taken into the body it is not just concentrated in the muscles but concentrated in the INTRACELLULAR spaces of ALL CELLS where the cancer sensitive chromosomes are located!
So to say that Potassium concentration is less in the radiosensitive cells of the blood, lymphoid tissues, testis, ovaries and intestine is definitely not in line with basic human physiology.
It is concentrated and equally distributed in ALL INTRACELLULAR SPACES . In terms of per cell mass, it may be slightly less only in fat cells.
Intracellular Potassium = 139 to 140 mEq
Extracellular Potassium = 4 mEq which is tiny compared with the Intracellular Potassium.
Thorium-232 stays mainly in the extracellular space where it is not so harmful.
Practically all the data on the acute and long term toxicology of Thorium-232 comes from the study of Thorotrast.
Most of the human data for thorium exposure comes from diagnostic studies. A massive dose of 1 to 2 vials of 25 ml of 25% Colloidal thorium-232 dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into patients as a radiographic contrast medium between 1928 and 1955.
Thorium dioxide in Thorotrast is insoluble and in a colloidal form i.e. in the form of particles. All insoluble particles are taken up by the macrophages and other cells of the reticulo-endothelial (RE) system and deposited into the tissues of the RE system i.e. the liver, spleen, lymph nodes, bone marrow and parts of the small intestines and not just the bones.
In humans, where will the soluble and not particulate form of Thorium salts be deposited and what is the renal clearance and hence their biological half life ? Nobody really knows because, for obvious reasons, all studies done on Thorium are conducted on animals. The results are only applicable to rats, rabbits, cats and dogs !
cont.
In places like Kerala, a coastal belt in India, the concentration of Thorium-232 in the soil average about 4,000 ppm.
The radiation at Karunagapally, Kerala has been assessed at 5 to 8 milisievert/year. In certain location on the coast, it is as high as 70 milisievert/year.
Thorium-232 is strongly adsorbed to clay and there is no natural way it can get into the body. Even the plants and fruits do not contain any Thorium in these high Thorium areas.
The amount of Thorium in the human body is so tiny (estimated to be only 30 micrograms per body) that only extremely sophisticated equipments are able to measure the true level.
The epidemiological data from these studies show that the primary health effects of high doses of injected Thorotrast are blood disorders and liver tumours. However, these tumours and blood disorders could have been caused by the massive doses of X-rays from the rather antique X-ray machines used at that time.
Because these are contrast studies, more than 20 to 50 X-rays need to be taken and the dose is really massive. None of the studies have factored in this massive dose of X-rays as all the studies are done retrospectively.
Some evidence of increased incidence of lung, pancreatic, and haematopoietic cancers was found in workers occupationally exposed to thorium via inhalation.
However, these workers were also exposed to several other toxic agents especially Silica (SiO2) which is a group 1 carcinogen and in some cases to other radionuclides like Uranium, K-40 and Radium, so direct causation cannot be inferred.
Inhalation of Thorium-232 by the general population like those living in the cities is practically impossible for the particles that can get into the lungs need to be between 1 to 5 microns. These tiny particles can only be found in the thorium or uranium mines or unsophisticated refineries.
Few data are available regarding the health effects associated with low (e.g., environmental) levels of exposure from either inhalation or ingestion.
Dr Looi
****************************************************************************
QUOTE: Learned Hon. Prof Chan:
Potassium-40, when absorbed, is distributed more uniformly throughout the human body, mostly in muscle tissue which is among the least radio-sensitive of the body’s tissues, Thorium entering the bloodstream localises to the bones where it is retained with a biological half-life of 22 years
ANSWER:
When Potassium is taken into the body it is not just concentrated in the muscles but concentrated in the INTRACELLULAR spaces of ALL CELLS where the cancer sensitive chromosomes are located!
So to say that Potassium concentration is less in the radiosensitive cells of the blood, lymphoid tissues, testis, ovaries and intestine is definitely not in line with basic human physiology.
It is concentrated and equally distributed in ALL INTRACELLULAR SPACES . In terms of per cell mass, it may be slightly less only in fat cells.
Intracellular Potassium = 139 to 140 mEq
Extracellular Potassium = 4 mEq which is tiny compared with the Intracellular Potassium.
Thorium-232 stays mainly in the extracellular space where it is not so harmful.
Practically all the data on the acute and long term toxicology of Thorium-232 comes from the study of Thorotrast.
Most of the human data for thorium exposure comes from diagnostic studies. A massive dose of 1 to 2 vials of 25 ml of 25% Colloidal thorium-232 dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into patients as a radiographic contrast medium between 1928 and 1955.
Thorium dioxide in Thorotrast is insoluble and in a colloidal form i.e. in the form of particles. All insoluble particles are taken up by the macrophages and other cells of the reticulo-endothelial (RE) system and deposited into the tissues of the RE system i.e. the liver, spleen, lymph nodes, bone marrow and parts of the small intestines and not just the bones.
In humans, where will the soluble and not particulate form of Thorium salts be deposited and what is the renal clearance and hence their biological half life ? Nobody really knows because, for obvious reasons, all studies done on Thorium are conducted on animals. The results are only applicable to rats, rabbits, cats and dogs !
In places like Kerala, a coastal belt in India, the concentration of Thorium-232 in the soil average about 4,000 ppm.
The radiation at Karunagapally, Kerala has been assessed at 5 to 8 milisievert/year. In certain location on the coast, it is as high as 70 milisievert/year.
Thorium-232 is strongly adsorbed to clay and there is no natural way it can get into the body. Even the plants and fruits do not contain any Thorium in these high Thorium areas.
The amount of Thorium in the human body is so tiny (estimated to be only 30 micrograms per body) that only extremely sophisticated equipments are able to measure the true level.
The epidemiological data from these studies show that the primary health effects of high doses of injected Thorotrast are blood disorders and liver tumours. However, these tumours and blood disorders could have been caused by the massive doses of X-rays from the rather antique X-ray machines used at that time.
Because these are contrast studies, more than 20 to 50 X-rays need to be taken and the dose is really massive. None of the studies have factored in this massive dose of X-rays as all the studies are done retrospectively.
Some evidence of increased incidence of lung, pancreatic, and haematopoietic cancers was found in workers occupationally exposed to thorium via inhalation.
However, these workers were also exposed to several other toxic agents especially Silica (SiO2) which is a group 1 carcinogen and in some cases to other radionuclides like Uranium, K-40 and Radium, so direct causation cannot be inferred.
Inhalation of Thorium-232 by the general population like those living in the cities is practically impossible for the particles that can get into the lungs need to be between 1 to 5 microns. These tiny particles can only be found in the thorium or uranium mines or unsophisticated refineries.
Few data are available regarding the health effects associated with low (e.g., environmental) levels of exposure from either inhalation or ingestion.
Dr Looi
Quoted from Ng Ai Soo response to the Hon. Prof. Chan ‘s article in the Malaysian Political Podium and Insider:
Quoted from Ng Ai Soo’s response to the Hon. Prof. Chan’s Article.
“The inverse square law applies to trillions and trillions of particles, not just the one particle. That one particle IS the radiation only “dilutes” in a quantum sense… it otherwise remains one particle no matter how far it is from the source… so the cellular damage by that one particle is the same, no matter how far it travelled to get into the cell. But it must survive that journey into the cell and for different particles the survival rates are different.
The “precautionary principle” has to be used judiciously… overuse can lead to awkward situations. For example, the other day a football player collapsed and very nearly died mid-game, therefore nobody should play football… never mind rugby! More than a million people die on the roads worldwide each year, therefore nobody should use roads… to say nothing about air travel. The use of coal results in fatalities not only in mining, but also due to emissions… therefore we should not use coal. So where do you draw the line.
The methods used to get such high damage estimates from radiation, if applied to other sources, can also lead to silly results. For example, if applied to air travel (high altitude leads to higher radiation) such methods will give hundreds, if not, thousands of casualties. As pointed out by Dr. Looi, people have lived very healthy lives for many, many generations in Ramsar despite (or because of?!) a background of more that 100mSv/yr… likewise in Kerala where the background exceeds 50mSv/yr… apply the extreme methods to these people and you will find thousands of expected radiation casualties over the millennia, not to say mutations and such… but the people have been and are all healthy if not better than average.
Nuclear power stations cannot be constructed in Cornwall because the natural background radiation is about 8mSv/yr. Why are there no cancer clusters there? You put it best when you say “excess childhood leukaemia near nuclear power plants that can’t be explained by radiation exposures which are much below the “safe thresholds””… that is, they are not caused by radiation exposure from the nuclear power stations. In fact such clusters occur in other places as well, nowhere near nuclear power stations, and in one case, a cluster was found at a site at which a nuclear power station was planned but not yet built!
Of course what happened at Cerrie is well known (see http://iopscience.iop.org/0952-4746/24/4/E02/pdf/jr44e1.pdf , http://www.cerrie.org/ and http://www.comare.org.uk which advises the UK government) and is due to two members, one of whom is Christopher Busby who, it seems, sells radiation protection kits to Fukushima survivors (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/21/christopher-busby-radiation-pills-fukushima and
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/nov/22/christopher-busby-nuclear-green-party ). Busby is very political and even ran for office. Please advise all that protection has to be sought for exposure to Busby emissions, if nothing else, from his reported profanity.
And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.) and, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons of Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air… and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula. Where do we store this waste? Does this waste go into making our roads or construction material? What is Lynas waste in comparison?! How did we manage to put up with that yearly radioactive and toxic waste, and plan to build more of the same, with no objection from you?
Be fair… if you want to protect us from industrial radiation pollution, then tackle the whole lot of them in proportion to their pollution, not just Lynas. Dr. Looi’s presentation of the facts is clear and persuasive compared with the unnecessary fear, uncertainty and doubt that taints your article.”
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
*
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/16/rare-earth-a-richer-malaysia-and-a-greener-world/#comment-76493
The Hon Prof. Chan :
Quote from the Hon. Professor “…childhood leukaemias observed among the children of Bukit Merah? (Recall also the inverse square law — the intensity of radiation from a radioactive particle a metre away from a human body increases a trillion-fold when that same particle sits at micron-level distances on the body’s cells and tissues.)
Reply by Ng Ai Soo
“The inverse square law applies to trillions and trillions of particles, not just the one particle. That one particle IS the radiation only “dilutes” in a quantum sense… it otherwise remains one particle no matter how far it is from the source… so the cellular damage by that one particle is the same, no matter how far it travelled to get into the cell. But it must survive that journey into the cell and for different particles the survival rates are different.
The Hon. Prof. Chan
A quick response to Ng Ai Soo (?): I’m referring to macroscopic radioactive particles (e.g. thorium-containing dusts), not to a radioactive atomic nucleus nor sub-atomic particles.
Comment by Me.
1. In addition to the clarification by Ng Ai Soo of the inappropriateness in invoking the inverse square law to just one particle, if we assume that the intensity is increased by a trillion fold, an alpha particle from Thorium-232 with an energy of 4 MeV is magnified by a factor of 1 trillion, the energy would be 0.64 Joules and this is so “intense” that all the cells that are hit, will be vaporized. We know that DEAD cells do not and cannot turn into cancer cells!
2. Even if we are referring to thorium-containing dusts in Bukit Merah and “not to a radioactive atomic nucleus nor sub-atomic particles,”
it would not work either because at 1 metre away, alpha particles from the Thorium-232 can travel about a couple of centimetres, and since the cells are subjected to an intensity of radiation at 1 metre = 0 units.
Therefore at micron level, 0 multiplied by 1 Trillion is still = 0 units
This shows that if we use retrograde calculations in these situations, we can end up with some rather embarrassing results.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
Quoted: Jonathan Fun Response to Hon. Prof Chan in Insider
“I read with great interest the debate and evidences shown by both sides.
While acknowledging Prof. Chan’s arguments, doubts, concerns, and counter-evidences on the effects of Thorium, I must agree with Datuk Dr. Looi and Ng Ai Soo’s points in what I’d like to call “Selective Rejection”.
We all know the effects of Thorium to our health through the inhalation route; microscopic thorium dusts entering our bloodstream, majority of those amounts will be deposited in our bone marrows and stays there for the next 22 years, emitting alpha radiation, increasing risks to cancer, etc.
But again, consider Ng Ai Soo’s comment from Chan’s previous article :
” And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.)
And, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons of Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air… and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.
Where do we store this waste? Does this waste go into making our roads or construction material? What is Lynas waste in comparison?! How did we manage to put up with that yearly radioactive and toxic waste, and plan to build more of the same, with no objection from you?
Be fair… if you want to protect us from industrial radiation pollution, then tackle the whole lot of them in proportion to their pollution, not just Lynas. Dr. Looi’s presentation of the facts is clear and persuasive compared with the unnecessary fear, uncertainty and doubt that taints your article in reply to him. ”
The keyword here IMHO is “Uncertainty”, which brings us back to the discussion of the “Precautionary Principle”.
There is nothing wrong being doubtful of the effects of Thorium, hence rejecting it, and there is nothing wrong being confident that Thorium wastes that will be produced by Lynas if they are given the green light to operate, are going to be safe, given the scientific facts that proves it.
But what I’d like to implore those hardcore Anti-Lynas/Anti-Rare Earth/Anti-Whatever friends out there to understand, is that when we make a stand, it must be based on a principle, and for the stand to be credible and fair, it must be applied across the board.
So we know iron/copper mines also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.
And we know rock phosphate fertilizer production facilities also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.
Hence, if the reason we are all so head over heals about throwing Lynas out of our shores is because of the potential hazards of Thorium, or the uncertainty that Thorium will be safe, then let our will be done. Reject Lynas. Get them out of the country. Shoo.
But we can’t let existing industries which are also producing Thorium wastes, like iron/copper mines and fertilizer plants, to continue operating as well. Reject any industry that produces Thorium wastes. Get them out of the country. Shoo.
Can we all agree on this stand? Else going all out to reject Lynas while allowing existing industries that also produces Thorium wastes to continue operation is just plain hypocritical.”
Dato’ Dr Looi
Response to the Learned Hon. Prof Chan’s Letter in Malaysia Political Podium and Insider.
1. When Potassium is taken into the body it is not just concentrated in the muscles but concentrated in the INTRACELLULAR spaces of ALL CELLS where the cancer sensitive chromosomes are located!
So to say that Potassium concentration is less in the radiosensitive cells of the blood, lymphoid tissues, testis, ovaries and intestine is definitely not in line with basic human physiology.
It is concentrated and equally distributed in ALL INTRACELLULAR SPACES . In terms of per cell mass, it may be slightly less only in fat cells.
Intracellular Potassium = 139 to 140 mEq
Extracellular Potassium = 4 mEq which is tiny compared with the Intracellular Potassium.
Thorium-232 stays mainly in the extracellular space where it is not so harmful.
2. The data quoted by the Hon. Professor Chan must be pretty old as it still use “Curie”. This unit is now practically obsolete and used only occasionally in the USA. We now use Sievert.
Anyway, curie is a measure of activity of the atoms and not the biological effects and as such CANNOT be used as a measure in a biological system as complex as the human body and on a subject that is even more complex as the causation of cancer.
3. To mention that the lifetime risk of cancer mortality per pCurie is higher in inhaled thorium-232 when compared with that of INHALED potassium is not always valid.
And it is not easy to find the heavier than lead Thorium-232 particles in the air for someone to inhale, even when near to a chemical plant like the Lynas Rare Earth Plant. You would be able to find the correct sized particles of about 1 to 2 microns in the Uranium or Thorium mines or Thorium refining plants or where there is combustion.
It sounds very impressive indeed to say that the lifetime cancer mortality risk for inhaled Thorium-232 is 200 times that of inhaled Potassium-40.
But we must know how these mortality coefficients are being calculated. For example in the case of Potassium-40:
(EPA USA) To estimate a lifetime cancer
mortality risk, if it is assumed that 100,000 people
were continuously exposed to a thick layer of soil
with an initial average concentration of 1 pCi/g
potassium-40, then 4 of these 100,000 people
would be predicted to incur a fatal cancer over
their lifetime.
Why not 40, or 80, or 800 or 8,000 or 80,000 of these 100,000 people would be predicted to incur a fatal cancer over their lifetime!
Any good mathematician would tell you that when an assumption is put into a mathematical equation, the result would be just RUBBISH!
The radiation of 6 Bq/gm from the weakly radioactive Thorium-232 in the Lynas waste is so low that even IAEA do not consider it significant and as such can be transported without any special permission.
Moreover, Thorium-232 is not a Carcinogen (cancer causing agent) if Inhaled or Ingested according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC.
Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.
It was claimed that a 20 year study in one of the largest rare earth mine, the Bayun Obo mine has shown that inhalation Thorium has proven to cause lung cancer. The number of miners in 2001 were 6,983 of which 3016 were exposed to dense dust in the mine.
After correcting for the heavy smoking, there was an excess of 10 cases of lung cancer in workers who had worked for about 30 years or so in the mine.
But this study cannot exclude crystalline silica (SiO2) in the dust as being the cause of the lung cancers. Silica is a confirmed carcinogen while Thorium by inhalation or ingestion is not.
AND MOREOVER, KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT RARE EARTH OR THORIUM MINERS!
The rare earth miners in the case of the Lynas Rare Earth Plant are still in a place called Mount Weld in Western Australia!
If there is any long term lung problem, the Australians are the ones who will be getting those problems and not the Kuantan people.
Kuantan people are just ordinary traders, office workers, taxi drivers or just hanging around doing nothing in the air-conditioned malls.
It is tantamount to claiming that since workers in the granite quarries and underground tin mines developed severe lung disease (silicosis) and lung cancer from inhaling dust containing silica (sand), the millions of tons of sand in our beaches should be relocated to somewhere safe or shipped back to…?Australia.
Definite evidence that crystalline silica (Sand, Sio2) is associated with an increased rate of lung cancer led the International Agency for Research on
Cancer (IARC) to conclude in 1997 that crystalline silica is a known human
carcinogen.
There is also a fear that the waste will be dumped all over the place. Unfortunately, this risk also apply to all our factories and plants. Should we demand that all our factories and plants to be closed down so that we can go back to the good old days of tapping rubber and plucking coconut for the BIG WHITE MAN?
In his article the Hon. Professor have conveniently excluded the following and that may distort the true picture.
1) The British study (COMARE) published in 2010 clearly showed that there is no increase in the number of leukaemia cases in young children living near nuclear power plants.
This study which covers a period of over 35 years is far more comprehensive than the French study which covers only a period of 5 years.
The research, conducted by scientists on the Committee of the Medical Aspects of Radiation in the Environment (COMARE), found only 20 cases of childhood leukaemia within 5 km (3.1 miles) of nuclear power stations between 1969 and 2004.
The rate was virtually the same as in areas where there were no nuclear plants.
A study on Germany, published in 2007, did find a significantly increased risk, but the COMARE team said these findings were probably influenced by an unexplained leukaemia cluster near a nuclear plant in Krummel, north Germany, that lasted from 1990 to 2005.
Excluding Krummel, evidence for an increased leukaemia risk among young children living close to German nuclear power plants was “extremely weak”, it said.
The French study found that between 2002 and 2007 (only 5 years), 14 children under the age of 15 living in a 5-kilometre radius of France’s 19 nuclear power plants had been diagnosed with leukaemia.
This number of cases (14 in 5 years) are so small that even a small unaccounted unknown factor would lead to a false statistical result.
2) Nuclear plants are so well shielded that there is no increase in the radiation level outside the plant.
The only type of “radiation” which cannot be shielded are the neutrinos which are created in great numbers in the nuclear reactors. But we must remember that Trillions upon Trillions of neutrinos from the sun and other sources pass through our bodies every second !
3) The Lynas plant is not a nuclear power plant and trying to compare findings from an nuclear plant to that of an ordinary chemical plant is like trying to compare an elephant with a caterpillar !
4) To imply that there is no safe level of radiation is like saying that there is no safe level of bacteria and other micro-organisms in the human body…. without realising that 90% of the living cells in the human body are micro-organisms. And without these micro-organisms we would not be able to stay healthy for long.
There is now more and more evidence to suggest that we need a certain amount of radiation to stimulate our immune system in order to stay healthy.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
2. ANSWER TO C.K. (SELF-STYLED NUCLEAR SCIENTIST AFFILIATED WITH CERN) WHO CLAIMED THAT IN PLACES WITH HIGH ENVIRONMENTAL RADIATION LIKE RAMSAR, THE INHABITANTS DO NOT SUFFER ANY ILL EFFECT BECAUSE OF ADAPTATION, FOR EXAMPLE THE CASE OF CHERNOBYL RAPID ADAPTATION TAKES PLACE AMONG THE “LIQUIDATORS”.
Quote “the writer has forgotten the glaring fact that those inhabitants in these locations have gone through generations of adaptations “. Unquote
REPLY: This I feel is a gross simplification of the situation. As you should know for a useful mutation to take place under a selective pressure like radiation we need the presence of millions upon millions of reproductive events.
Those individuals without this useful mutation must be selectively eliminated through death or inability to reproduce.
Deaths and infertility have not been a known side effect of the slow, low level radiation seen in Ramsar where the average radiation, though higher than other places, are still way below the lethal level. The average radiation level is only 10 mSv per year, though in some areas it may be as high as 260 mSv/yr.
Humans are not like bacteria or viruses where millions or even billions of individual organisms are involved and where there is a generation change within about 20 minutes or so.
In Ramsar, for instance the population in 2006 is only 31,000.
In terms of useful mutation that can be transmitted to the whole population to materialise, the chance of such a mutation must be incredibly small for such a genetically tiny non-isolated population. Those 31,000 people over the years must have moved freely to and from other parts of Iran.
For a tiny population and where the reproductive cycle is in terms of 20 years or so the number of generations must run into thousands or even more.
Moreover, Ramsar is not an isolated island, but rather part of an easily accessible area of Iran where there are frequent movement of people and genetic material.
As such, for that one incredible rare mutation providing resistance to radiation to be transmitted to whole non-static population is near impossible, especially when that one mutant needs to impregnate and transmit this useful gene to a whole non-static population. He must be a real SUPERMAN!
The example of radiation accident at Chernobyl where 30 people lost their lives as a result of acute radiation syndrome is a rather poor example to explain the development of genetically transmitted radiation tolerance.
The exposure was very acute and at a very high dose, at levels of about 100 mSv over a very short time. These are highly lethal doses and as such should obviously cause a certain number of deaths, just like any other toxin or chemical where not all that are exposed will die and as such we have such a statistical value called LD50.
According to UNSCEAR apart from increased thyroid cancers, there is no evidence of a major public health impact attributable to radiation exposure 20 years after the accident. This includes all the “liquidators” (clean-up workers) in the Chernobyl disaster.
Although I must admit that the genetic makeup has a big influence on the severity of the damage, there are many other factors that needs to be considered like the actual dose of radiation, how acute was the dose delivered, the organs involved, the amount of various types of existing chemicals (like iodine) present in the body, the size of the person, the existing health condition etc.
It is tantamount to saying that if a certain number of people are given 150 tablets of panadol at 30 tablets per day for five days a certain number of them will die from liver failure. The genetically tolerant patients will be “selected” by this selection pressure to pass the genes to the now panadol resistant population. This may be a fair argument.
However, if a similar group of people were given 150 tablets of panadol at only 5 tablets per day in divided doses, this is no longer a form of selection pressure as the dosage though high is well below the danger threshold and will not cause any death from liver failure.
The average dose of radiation received by people in Ramsar is about 10 milisievert/year, though in some cases can reach a level in excess of 260 milisievert/year.
This radiation level of 10 mSv/year is like taking 150 tablets of panadol at 5 tablets per day in divided doses. At this low level it is not a significant evolutional selection pressure as it is way below a level which can cause rapid evolutional changes.
The scientist also claimed that the radiation is cumulative and as such do exert a selective pressure on the population of e.g. Ramsar.
However, this scientist do not realise that if it is cumulative in nature, it therefore does not kill the people within a short period.
What this suggest is that, if that is true, it will only cause death from cancer 10 to 30 years later WELL AFTER THE REPRODUCTIVE AGE OF THE PEOPLE AND AS SUCH WILL NOT HAVE ANY ILL EFFECT ON THE SURVIVAL OF THE POPULATION AS A WHOLE i.e. the moderately high level of radiation not an evolutional selective pressure on the population.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
1. ANSWER TO C.K. (SELF-STYLED NUCLEAR SCIENTIST AFFILIATED WITH CERN) who claimed that the actual casualties from Chernobyl is MUCH higher than what establishment acknowledges and may actually run into the thousands.
My reply:
I am aware of the claims that thousands upon thousands of the liquidators (clean-up workers) have died but you must remember that there was a total of well over 700,000 liquidators.
The male life expectancy in Russia in 1999 was only 58 years. The accident happened in 1986 i.e. 26 years ago and so all those who were above 32 years old at that time (58 minus 26 years) have already exceeded their normal life expectancy. The average age of the early liquidators were between 20 and 45 years.
So out of the 700,000 people probably a few hundred thousand must have exceeded their life expectance by now and it is not unexpected to find thousands of these people have died by now from causes other than radiation. An UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008.
Quote from IAEA: “Emergency workers or “liquidators” were drafted into the area and helped to clean up the plant premises and the surrounding area. These workers, generally men aged 20 to 45, were mostly plant employees, Ukrainian fire-fighters plus many soldiers and miners from Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and other parts of the then Soviet Union.
Within the first three months, the group known as the “Early Liquidators”, those first on the scene including plant workers, construction workers and local fire-fighters, lost 28 members to Acute Radiation Sickness. Another 106 persons were treated for the same disease and survived. Nineteen additional patients died over the eight years following the accident, although these were not necessarily associated with radiation exposure
Some 350,000 people involved in the initial clean-up of the plant in 1986-87 received average total body radiation doses of the order of 100 millisieverts (mSv) – a millisievert is a unit of radiation dose equivalent to about 10 general chest x-rays. This dose is about five times the maximum annual dose limit currently permitted for workers in nuclear facilities (20 mSv per year). Average worldwide natural “background” radiation is about 2.4 mSv annually.” Unquote
What I am trying to say is that it is not valid to use the results of the ACUTE HIGH INTENSITY radiation (100 mSv) of Chernobyl to justify evolutionary changes in the chronic low intensity (about 10 mSv/year) radiation found in places like Ramsay.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
Quote the good old learned Hon. Prof. Chan:
” The “safe thresholds” of 1 mSv/yr (public) and 20 mSv/yr (occupational) that Dr Looi, Dr Che Rosli Che Mat (MP, Hulu Langat), Lynas, AELB, and IAEA repeatedly invoke are derived from ICRP risk models which are currently under critical scrutiny and challenge, in the wake of excess childhood leukaemia near nuclear power plants that can’t be explained by radiation exposures which are much below the “safe thresholds”. A UK expert panel for instance (2004, http://www.cerrie.org) could not arrive at a consensus regarding the health risks of low-level exposure to internal emitters (inhaled or ingested radioactive particles). Opinions among the UK panel members ranged from negligible adverse effects to an underestimation of risk by at least a 100-fold. Unquote.
However, experts including Professor Wade Allison of Oxford University argue that the dose limit can safely be raised to 100 millisieverts, based on current health statistics.
CERRIE Minority Report and European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR)
The anti-lynas group (including the good Hon. Professor C.) has often used the CERRIE Minority Report to claim that “There is strong evidence that current models of hazard from radioactivity inside the human body underestimate risks by at least 100 and possibly up to 1,000 times.”
What happened at CERRIE (Committee Examining Radiation Risks of Internal Emitters) is well known (see http://iopscience.iop.org/0952-4746/24/4/E02/pdf/jr44e1.pdf , http://www.cerrie.org/ and
http://www.comare.org.uk/ which advises the UK government) and is due to two members, one of whom is Christopher Busby who, it seems, sells radiation protection kits to Fukushima survivors
(see http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/21/christopher-busby-radiation-pills-fukushima and
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/nov/22/christopher-busby-nuclear-green-party ). Busby is very political and even ran for office.
They also cited that the self-styled European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR) which is an informal committee formed in 1997 following a meeting by the European Green Party which claimed that the risk from radioactive internal emitters are at least 100 to 200 times more hazardous than currently believed.
Quote: Nick Tsurikov “The point that I would like to make is to illustrate clearly that ECRR “100-200 times” factors cannot possibly be correct – have a look:
The ‘official’ risk of getting cancer from radiation exposure is 1 in 20,000 per 1 milliSievert of dose. So, if the hazard is ‘understated’ by, say, 200 times – it becomes 1 in 100, per 1 mSv of dose.
Thousands of people in Malaysian amang industry and in heavy mineral sands industry world wide have been exposed to about 5 mSv every year for (let’s say, on average) 6 years of working life, so their cumulative dose was 30 mSv.
WHICH MEANS THAT IF ECRR IS CORRECT, EVERY THIRD WORKER IN THE AMANG INDUSTRY WOULD BE DEAD FROM CANCER BY NOW !
And what about those who were exposed to about 20 mSv for five years or more (in any industry, uranium included) – in accordance with the ECRR coefficients – the chance is 1 in 1, so they are all dead from cancer by now…
I do not see any cancer epidemic happening… What about all the tin miners in Malaysia in 1950′s-1970′s: they all should’ve died within several years after starting their work (as their coefficient would be close to 5 to 1…) Just some points for general consideration…” Unquote.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
*
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/16/rare-earth-a-richer-malaysia-and-a-greener-world/#comment-76493
PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT THIS VIDEO CLIP WHICH HELPS TO SHOW UP HOW TOXIC POLITICAL WASTES ARE CONTAMINATING THE POLITICAL SCENERY AND POLLUTING OUR BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY WITH SOMETHING THAT IS FAR, FAR, FAR MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE TOXIC WASTES FROM ALL THE FACTORIES AND PLANTS IN MALAYSIA !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjT1kUAy_08&feature=player_detailpage
Dato’ Dr Looi
To Danny….
Lynas radioactive and toxic waste will polute our air and water?
Kuantan People Not Miners and Lynas plant is not a rare earth mine.
Quote:
“vast tracts of lands and thousands of square kilometres have been rendered hazardous, with toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies.” Unquote
I HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING THAT KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT MINERS IN THE RARE EARTH OR URANIUM OR THORIUM MINES.
The ” with toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies.”,
ARE FROM THE MINES AND NOT FROM THE MODERN REFINING CHEMICAL PLANTS!
PLEASE DO NOT KEEP ON REFERRING US IN KUANTAN AND COMPARING US TO “THE WORKERS IN THE MINES EXPOSED TO THORIUM BY INHALATION OF FINE PARTICLES !
” Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.”
AND NOBODY FROM LYNAS IS GOING AROUND IN KUANTAN INJECTING US WITH THORIUM DIOXIDE !!
I REPEAT: KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT RARE EARTH OR THORIUM MINERS !
The rare earth miners in the case of the Lynas Rare Earth Plant are still in a place called Mount Weld in Western Australia !
If there is any long term lung problem, the Australians are the ones who will be getting those problems and not the Kuantan people.
Kuantan people are just ordinary traders, office workers, taxi drivers or just hanging around doing nothing in the air-conditioned malls.
It is tantamount to claiming that since workers in the granite quarries and underground tin mines developed severe lung disease (silicosis) and lung cancer from inhaling dust containing silica (sand), the millions of tons of sand in our beaches should be relocated to somewhere safe or shipped back to…?Australia.
Definite evidence that crystalline silica (Sand, Sio2) is associated with an increased rate of lung cancer led the International Agency for Research on
Cancer (IARC) to conclude in 1997 that crystalline silica is a known human
carcinogen.
You can find the data even in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_1_carcinogens
Normally the IARC list do not detail the conditions which is attached to the agent before it can be deemed to be carcinogenic.
You can find the data in the IARC monograph when they approved the labelling of Thorium-232 as a carcinogen.
For instance even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.
The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.
The same condition apply to Thorium-232 i.e.
” Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.”
Practically all the data on Thorium-232 and cancer comes from the intravenous injection of Thorotrast.
In the past where huge doses of 25cc to 50 cc of a 25%solution of Thorium dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into the vein for contrast radiological studies, a very small number out of the 4 million or so patients were believed to have developed cancers 20 to 30 years later in their old age.
I repeat: NOBODY FROM LYNAS IS GOING AROUND IN KUANTAN INJECTING US WITH THORIUM DIOXIDE !!
Part of the IARC list of Carcinogens in :
• Schistosoma haematobium (infection with)
• Silica, crystalline (inhaled in the form of quartz or cristobalite from occupational sources)
• Solar radiation
• Talc containing asbestiform fibres
• Tamoxifen5
• 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin
• Thiotepa (1,1′,1″-Phosphinothioylidynetrisaziridine)
•Thorium-232 and its decay products, administered intravenously as a colloidal dispersion of thorium-232 dioxide
• Treosulfan
• ortho-Toluidine
• Vinyl chloride
• Ultraviolet Radiation
• X-Radiation and Gamma radiation
Best regards,
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_1_carcinogens
TO DANNY…………..
what about the toxic chemical waste?
If you really want to go 100% GREEN,
Close Down All Our Factories, Industrial Plants, Power Plants, Oil Rigs etc, and Become a 4th World Country and Send Our Daughters and Granddaughters To Myanmar and Kampuchea to Work as Domestic Servants!
I have always maintained that the main problem is not radiation but the normal chemical toxic wastes from a normal chemical plant.
I agree that there is also a fear that the waste will be dumped all over the place. Unfortunately, this risk also apply to all our factories and plants. Should we demand that all our factories and plants to be closed down so that we can go back to the good old days of tapping rubber and plucking coconuts for the BIG WHITE MAN?
And why is it that we only target Lynas and not the rest of all our factories and industrial plants which produce far more toxic wastes especially our own oil palm mills and tin mining and smelting industries?
Using the same logic we should ask all these plants to send all their wastes back to Germany, England, US etc. I bet with you nobody would want to invest in Malaysia. We will remain poor and may have to send our daughters and granddaughters to work as lowly domestic maids in other countries.
Quote Ng Ai Soo
“And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.) and, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons of Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air… and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.”
I hope the explanation by Jonathan Fun will also help.
By Jonathan Fun reply to Hon. Prof Chan’s Letter
Quote:
“I read with great interest the debate and evidences shown by both sides.
While acknowledging Prof. Chan’s arguments, doubts, concerns, and counter-evidences on the effects of Thorium, I must agree with Datuk Dr. Looi and Ng Ai Soo’s points in what I’d like to call “Selective Rejection”.
We all know the effects of Thorium to our health through the inhalation route; microscopic thorium dusts entering our bloodstream, majority of those amounts will be deposited in our bone marrows and stays there for the next 22 years, emitting alpha radiation, increasing risks to cancer, etc.
But again, consider Ng Ai Soo’s comment from Chan’s previous article :
” And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.)
And, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons of Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air… and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.” Unquote
“In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant—a by-product from burning coal for electricity—carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy.” (Quote from Scientific American)
Where do we store this waste? Does this waste go into making our roads or construction material? What is Lynas waste in comparison?! How did we manage to put up with that yearly radioactive and toxic waste, and plan to build more of the same, with no objection from you?
Be fair… if you want to protect us from industrial radiation pollution, then tackle the whole lot of them in proportion to their pollution, not just Lynas. Dr. Looi’s presentation of the facts is clear and persuasive compared with the unnecessary fear, uncertainty and doubt that taints your article in reply to him. ”
The keyword here IMHO is “Uncertainty”, which brings us back to the discussion of the “Precautionary Principle”.
There is nothing wrong being doubtful of the effects of Thorium, hence rejecting it, and there is nothing wrong being confident that Thorium wastes that will be produced by Lynas if they are given the green light to operate, are going to be safe, given the scientific facts that proves it.
But what I’d like to implore those hardcore Anti-Lynas/Anti-Rare Earth/Anti-Whatever friends out there to understand, is that when we make a stand, it must be based on a principle, and for the stand to be credible and fair, it must be applied across the board.
So we know iron/copper mines also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.
And we know rock phosphate fertilizer production facilities also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.
Hence, if the reason we are all so head over heals about throwing Lynas out of our shores is because of the potential hazards of Thorium, or the uncertainty that Thorium will be safe, then let our will be done. Reject Lynas. Get them out of the country. Shoo.
But we can’t let existing industries which are also producing Thorium wastes, like iron/copper mines and fertilizer plants, to continue operating as well. Reject any industry that produces Thorium wastes. Get them out of the country. Shoo.
Can we all agree on this stand? Else going all out to reject Lynas while allowing existing industries that also produces Thorium wastes to continue operation is just plain hypocritical. ”
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
TO DANNY………………
The Problem: A Mountain of Lynas Waste ?
A reader once asked ” Would it be safe to say 132,000,000,000 Bq will be resulting from 22,000 tonnes of Lynas waste even though it has only 6 Bq per gm?”
Well, Thorium-232 produces only alpha rays (gamma rays from daughter isotopes are insignificant, please see below) which cannot pass through even a thin piece of paper or the surface of the skin.
If you have a lump of pure Thorium-232, all you need to do is to wrap it up in newspaper and that will stop all the alpha radiation from getting out!
Since alpha particles of Thorium-232 which decay with energies of 3.8 to about 4.8 MeV can travel only a couple of centimetres in air, only less than 28 micron in fluids and much less in solid material, even if you have a huge pile of Lynas waste, the external radiation would not increase by much because only a tiny percentage of thorium-232 atoms directly on the surface of the pile will be able to radiate out their alpha particles.
Those just below the surface will remain inside the pile. Each alpha particle will just pick up 2 electrons and be converted to the simple non-radioactive helium gas.
Even those alpha particles from the surface will be converted to harmless helium gas after a few centimetres through the air.
So all that your mountain of Lynas waste will only “radiate” harmless non-radioactive Helium gas.
That’s why I always tell the anti-lynas clique that I have no problem in keeping a few hundred kilograms of pure Thorium-232 in my house. Because I would be keeping the Thorium-232 in the form of a solid metallic sphere where the surface area to unit volume is minimum and since metallic Thorium-232 is superb radiation shield, practically all the tiny amount of radiation produced, are auto-shielded by the metallic Thorium-232 ! Radiation risk from pure Thorium-232 is minute and keeping it in a the form of a metallic sphere and wrapping it up in newspaper would cut the radiation to a completely harmless level !
The radiation of 6 Bq/gm from the weakly radioactive Thorium-232 in the Lynas waste is so low that even IAEA do not consider it significant and as such can be transported without any special permission.
One reader stated that although Thorium-232 may not be dangerous, all their “daughter” isotopes have very short half-lives like Radon-220 and these are highly radioactive, so how could we say that Thorium-232 is not dangerous.
Well, the reason is obvious. But I find great difficulty in explaining to the layman the reason why when an element with an extremely long half-life that decays into isotopes with very short half-life, there is minimal accumulation of the short half-life isotopes and as such do not build up into a large enough quantity to pose any significant hazard.
I will try to explain by this simple analogy.
If there are 2 million people waiting outside a stadium and 1 million people managed to get into the stadium after 14,000,000,000 years (half-life of Thorium-232), it means that you will see only 1 person getting into the stadium every 14,000 years.
But once in the stadium the half-life of the new person (half-life of Radon-220 from the Thorium-232 decay chain is only 55 seconds) is so short when compared with those outside (Thorium-232) that he has left the stadium almost immediately. Getting in is extremely slow but getting out is extremely fast!
Since only 1 person gets into the stadium every 14,000 years, if you look into the stadium you will see it as empty most of the time!
It is just like trying to fill up a bucket by a slow, slow drop by drop drip and the bucket has a big hole at the bottom. If you look into the bucket you will see practically little or no water in it!
Since the Lynas waste product has only 6 Bq/gm of radioactivity, the chance of detecting any significant amount of radon gas is pretty slim indeed.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
TO DANNY………………
Thorium-232 may not be dangerous as negligible amounts are absorbed from the gut and insignificant amount is inhaled by non-miners, but what about the dangerous accumulation of Radon gas?
Thorium-232 produces only alpha rays (gamma rays from daughter isotopes are insignificant) which cannot pass through even a thin piece of paper or the surface of the skin.
The 0.09 MeV gamma ray detected in freshly separated Thorium-232 actually comes from Radium-228, one of the daughter radionuclides from the Thorium-232 decay.
If you have a lump of pure Thorium-232, all you need to do is to wrap it up in newspaper and that will stop all the alpha radiation from getting out!
Since alpha radiation cannot go far, even if you have a huge pile of Lynas waste, the external radiation would not increase by much because only the tiny percentage of thorium-232 atoms directly on the surface of the pile will be able to radiate out their alpha particles. Those just below the surface will remain inside the pile and be converted to simple helium gas.
Since this is a case of an element which has an extremely long half life (14 billion years) and all the daughter radionuclides have relatively very short half lives (from microseconds to 6.7 years), at equilibrium, the concentration of the daughter radionuclides is very small.
Because the concentration of Thorium-232 in the Lynas waste is so low, the gamma radiation from the daughter isotopes are relatively low.
As far as radon gas is concerned, it must be remembered that Radon-220 from the decay chain of Thorium-232 has a very short half life of only 55 seconds!
As such only a tiny amount of Radon-220 (a.k.a. Thoron) within a few centimetres of the surface of a huge pile of waste will be able to live long enough to escape from the pile and see the light of day!
A lot of people have mistaken Radon-220 from Thorium-232 decay series with the more notorious Radon-222 which has a much longer half life of 3.8 days. Radon-222 comes from Uranium-238 decay series.
Because of its much longer half life, Radon-222 can and do accumulate in the cellars and poorly ventilated areas of domestic dwellings. Radon-222 is the gas that has been linked to lung cancers in especially non-smokers.
So please do not blame poor Thorium-232. It does not produce any Radon-222 and as such is not guilty of radon induced lung cancers.
The radiation of 6 Bq/gm from the weakly radioactive Thorium-232 in the Lynas waste is so low that even IAEA do not consider it significant and as such can be transported without any special permission.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
*
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242
http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/16/rare-earth-a-richer-malaysia-and-a-greener-world/#comment-76493
TO DANNY:
THE VIDEO OF POLLUTION ETC. ARE ALL ABOUT THE RARE EARTH MINES AND AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES THE LYNAS PLANT IS A STATE OF ART MODERN CHEMICAL PLANT AND NOT A RARE EARTH MINE.
AND KUANTAN FOLKS ARE NOT MINERS, THE MINERS ARE STILL IN A PLACE CALLED MOUNT WELD IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA.
IF THERE IS ANY AIR POLLUTION OR WATER POLLUTION FROM THIS MINE, THE AUSTRALIAN MINERS ARE THE ONES WHO WILL HAVE A PROBLEM AND NOT THE KUANTAN FOLK !
ADSORPTION AND SOLUBILITY
“Thorium-232 is strongly bound (adsorbed) by soil especially clay soil. The Thorium concentration in the clay particles is about 500,000 % higher than in the water between the clay particles.
So, it cannot be leached out by water and pollute the rivers. Even if the clay soil is washed into the rivers and sea it will not do any harm as the thorium will still be strongly attached (adsorbed) to the clay and will not dissolve into the water.”
Quote:
Salesman forgot to tell you that the WLP waste will be roasted in concentrated acid. And in that form, thorium is highly soluble. Unquote
The SOLUBILITY of a substance in a solvent like water and ADSORPTION of the substance are 2 separate properties and not the same.
In nature Thorium-232 is found in the form of Monazite (Ce,La,Nd,Th)PO4 i.e. the phosphate of Thorium-232. This is completely insoluble in water.
The next most common ore is Thorite (ThSiO4) which has a gram molecular weight of 324.12 gm. The oxide of Thorium is also present in nature. The silicates and oxides are completely insoluble in water.
Practically most of the other thorium compounds are artificially created in the laboratory. The most famous is Thorium dioxide (ThO2) which was used as a radiological contrast media and because it is also insoluble, it is administered intravenously as a colloidal dispersion of thorium-232 dioxide (Thorotrast)
Huge doses of 25cc to 50 cc of a 25%solution of Thorium dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into the vein or artery in the contrast radiological studies.
The other Thorium salts like the fluorides, chlorides, Iodides, sulfides, selenides, tellurides, nitrides, nitrates, sulphates and other complexes are all artificially synthesized.
All of these have varying degrees of solubility in water. The most soluble will be the nitrates, chlorides and to a lesser degree sulphates. As mentioned above, the oxides, silicates and phosphates are insoluble.
Metallic Thorium-232 is of course totally insoluble in water.
However, whether Thorium-232 is in the SOLUBLE OR INSOLUBLE FORM, IT IS STILL STRONGLY ADSORBED BY CLAY AND CANNOT BE LEACHED OUT BY WATER.
The extremely dangerous herbicide Paraquat is a liquid and is extremely soluble in water. Although it is extremely soluble and dangerous, IT IS NOT LEACHED OUT OF THE SOIL and pollute the rivers because it is STRONGLY ADSORBED BY CLAY SOIL JUST LIKE THORIUM-232.
So Lynas can continue their acid roasting of the ore and with the usual procedures taken, it should not be a problem.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
*** Response on the article on “Lynas of France” ***
It is with ridiculous and SAD to read the article and statement by our own science academician (eg. CEO of ASM) on the rare earth processing plant in La Rochella. Again, it just showed that how “un-informed” (or unwilling) is our so called “scientist” in finding the facts on the rare earth industry.
The plant in La Rochella is not like Lynas. They dont store the waste in their vicinity,
the waste is stored in a facility specialiazed in disposing radioactive waste. (read below)
The “half-truth” article is nothing but a deception to our fellow Malaysian….
WAKE UP, my dear friend, WAKE UP…..
====================================================
A search in the internet, will reveal the followings….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodia_(company)#cite_note-Andra1-39
La Rochelle
According to ANDRA, the French agency for waste management,until July 1994,
Electronics and Catalysis (now Rhodia Rare Earth Systems) used very
slightly radioactive monazite as an ore, producing radium-bearing waste,
which was initially stored at ANDRA’s La Manche center[1] until 1991, then
in the French atomic energy commission’s Cadarache facility[2]. The
treatment of the slightly radioactive monazite produced 8,023 tons,
according to ANDRA), of slightly radioactive solid residue up until 1994.
According to ANDRA, in 2007, this residue contained 2,000 tons of uranium
and 2.6 tons of toxic lead. The plant is subject to ICPE environmental
surveillance. A project to launch a recycling plant[3] for the rare earth
contained in used lightbulbs is being looked into.
NOTES:
[1]The Manche disposal facility is the first repository to be built in
France for low-level and intermediate-level radioactive waste.
[2]The Cadarache facility is one of the largest nuclear research sites in
Europe, hosting 21 fixed nuclear installations, including reactors, waste
stockpiling and recycling facilities, and research centers
[3]The processing of secondary rare earths (recycling) will be free from
radioactive impurities.
***************************************************************************************************************************
Reply to Factfinder:
Waste Management in the La Rochelle Rare Earth Plant
The La Rochelle plant uses Monazite-(Ce)…(Ce, La, Nd, Th, Y)PO4 and this is by far the most common and most radioactive of the 3 types of monazite ore. The other 2 types which are Monazite-(La) and Monazite-(Nd).
The monazite from Malaysian Tin tailings has 6 to 7% Thorium-232 and has an activity of 284 Bq/g.
WASTES
Until the end of 1974, the plant released all radioactive liquids and solids directly into the sea. Since, and until the end of 1990, it sent at least a part of the solid residues to the CSM. These wastes are composed, among other substances, of thorium 232, uranium 238, and their descendants (including radium 226 and 228).
SOLID WASTES
–A solid residue resulting from the processing prior to July 1994 and described by Andra as “Résidu solide banalisé” (RSB), solid residue made commonplace.
As of June 1999, 8025 tons (50% moisture) with an activity of 217 GBq were on the site. The thorium 232 in the dry product represented 48 Bq/g; the uranium 238, 6 Bq/g.
Rhône-Poulenc placed 61,000 t of what Andra describes as RSB into a waste site located near its factory and belonging to the city of La Rochelle (Port de Pallice). The residues contain in particular thorium 232 (48 Bq/g dry product) and uranium 238 (6 Bq/g dry product), for a total of 1.65 TBq [Andra 00].
–Radioactive minerals that have not been attacked. According to Andra, they have been used to fill in a part of the plant site;
–Substances in suspension, the only residue produced by the minerals used today. 10,048 t (50% moisture) containing thorium 232 (2.6 Bq/g ) and uranium 238 (4.7Bq/g) for a total of 37 GBq are stored at the plant;
–Tailings, containing thorium 232, uranium 238, and their descendents including radium. They are more radioactive than the RSB (see above). They are located at Cadarache and presumably in the bay of La Rochelle. They were stored for a time at the CSM.
–Thorium nitrate and crude thorium hydroxide. The 2000 inventory of Andra states in a footnote that it does not take into consideration some 11,000 t of thorium nitrate (mass activity 1650 Bq/g) and about 20,000 t of crude thorium hydroxide (mass activity 720 Bq/g), the “historic” residue of the processing prior to mid-1994, because these substances are “commercialized at present “by Rhodia Terres Rares. The thorium nitrate is used in the manufacture of lamp sleeves; the hydroxide “is a potential raw material.” Apparently these substances are stored at the site [Andra 99]. The 1997 inventory of Andra listed the hydroxide as a waste.
The waste thorium nitrate (mass activity 1650 Bq/g) has an activity which is 27,500% higher than the waste from Lynas which is only 6 Bq/g! Apparently these substances are stored at the site [Andra 99].
8,025 TONS OF WASTE WITH AN ACTIVITY OF 217 GBq were still stored in the compounds of the plant.
THIS “LOW RADIOACTICITY WASTE HAS” 48 Bq/g from Thorium 232 and 6 Bq/g from Uranium-238 giving a total of 54 Bq/g.
You have to realise that 54 Bq/g is 900% higher than that of the Lynas waste of 6 Bq/g.
And these wastes are still being stored in the compound of the plant.
If the French are not worried about 54 Bq/g of radioactivity, why are we so frightened of 6 Bq/g?
Answer: 100% pure politics from toxic radioactive politicians!
Dato’ Dr Looi
Thunder Looi should note that another round of anti-Lynas rallies will kick off in 34 towns and cities in Malaysia and Australia simultaneously on July 14 in conjunction with the Save Malaysia Stop Lynas coalition’s “call to action”. Thunder Looi should take the opportunity to tell the protestors that Lynas is safe by presenting his arguments, with the help of nkkhoo. nkkhoo can take the opportunity to make him a worldwide blogger, at be famous in australia!
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ANTI-LYNAS FOLKS ARE ADDICTED TO EXAGGERATION.
e.g. RIDICULOUS CLAIM: 1 QUARTER OF A MILLION PEOPLE SUPPORTED THE GREENIES DURING BERSIH 3 !
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Quote: Lu Cheng Long
“Everyone claims that their view represent the majority. So the majority really reject Lynas? I don’t know, but anti Lynas people sure make a lot noise. But we know well informed people support Lynas.
ANOTHER THING IS DURING BERSIH 3, I SAW LOTS AND LOTS OF YELLOW, ONLY A HANDFUL OF PITIFUL GREEN. IT MUST BE A VERY HARD FEELING FOR ANTI LYNAS PEOPLE THINKING THAT THE NATION IS WITH THEM’ Unquote
Helicopter pictures of the main section of the crowd with subsequent computer analysis of “Bersih 3″ published in the Sin Chew Newspaper (yes, the Sin Chew Newspaper which is very sympathetic to the anti lynas people ) showed that the total number of people attending the demonstration in the main section was less than 5,000 people and not 250,000 people as claimed by some.
And only a tiny miserable proportion of these people are the “GREENIES”.
This type of gross exaggeration is very typical of the anti-lynas crowd.
Now you know how a simple chemical plant can be magically and conveniently transformed in to a Nuclear Plant!
HOPE THE SO CALLED INTERNATIONAL DEMONSTRATION NEXT WEEK BY A FEW MALAYSIAN GREENIES (OR BLACK SHIRTIES) AND THE AUSTRALIAN LOONIES WILL NOT BE INTERPRETED AS A WORLD WIDE ANTI-LYNAS DEMONSTRATION !
REMEMBER, THERE ARE ABOUT 194 COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
Anti-Lynas is like a group of headless flies.
Despite Lynas’ public proclamation of “Zero Harm” commitment there is no foolproof containment measures for such toxic residue for workers onsite at the LAMP. The rare earth oxide concentrates that will be arriving shortly at Kuantan port will have 1600 ppm of thorium. The US Public Health Service (1990) reports that the natural background level in soil is typically 6 ppm of thorium.
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Answer to Jess:
QUOTE:
“The US Public Health Service (1990) reports that the natural background level in North American soil is typically ~ 6 ppm of thorium.”
ANSWER:
AVERAGE MALAYSIAN SOIL = 20 ppm OF THORIUM
Nick Tsurikov, Radiation Safety Expert: ” THE MAJORITY OF THIS LYNAS “WASTE” WILL HAVE ONLY HALF THE THORIUM THAN IN NORMAL MALAYSIAN SOIL. So, in fact most of Lynas residues are only half as radioactive as the sand the kids all over Malaysia play in the kindergartens” (Note: Sand or crystalline SiO2 is also classified as a group 1 Carcinogen by IARC).
If you do look through the Lynas RIA together with UN (not IAEA) reports – you will clearly see that two most ‘voluminous’ residues from LAMP will have less than 12 parts per million of thorium – and the average Malaysian soil – 20 parts per million of thorium. Of course, the third ‘residue stream’ will have about 1500 ppm of thorium and will need to be managed appropriately
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1. LYNAS RARE EARTH PLANT ORE :
= 6 Bq/g = 1,600 ppm
2. MONAZITE FROM AMANG (TIN TAILINGS FROM MALAYSIA):
= 284 Bq/g = 78,000 ppm
3. “LOW RADIOACTIVITY WASTE” STORED IN LA ROCHELLE RARE EARTH PLANT:
= 48 Bq/g from Thorium 232 = 13,200 ppm
(6 Bq from Uranium-238 not included)
4. Also stored in La Rochelle Plant are the almost pure Thorium nitrate and crude thorium hydroxide. The 2000 inventory of Andra states in a footnote that it does not take into consideration some 11,000 tonnes of thorium nitrate (mass activity 1650 Bq/g) and about 20,000 tonnes of crude thorium hydroxide (mass activity 720 Bq/g), the “historic” residue of the processing prior to mid-1994, because these substances are “commercialized at present “by Rhodia Terres” and are still stored in the plant.
SO IF WE ARE TO LOOK AT THE CONCENTRATION OF THORIUM-232 IN OUR OWN MONAZITE ORE OF 78,000 ppm AND THORIUM-232 IN LOW RADIOACTIVITY WASTE OF 13,200 ppm AND THE ALMOST PURE THORIUM NITRATE AND HYDROXIDE STORED AT THE LA ROCHELLE PLANT,
WHY WORRY ABOUT THE 1,600 ppm THORIUM-232 IN THE LYNAS ORE!
Dr Looi
Tell me the safety limit in PPM? It may be 10000 PPM or whatever higher number.
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COMPARISON OF RADIOACTIVITY IN Bq (SPECIFIC ACTIVITY: Number of atoms decaying in 1 second)
Pure freshly separated Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium (3 different isotopes) in our body and food = 31.825 Bq/gm
Artificially created Plutonium-238 = 634,000,000,000 Bq/gm (1/2 life=87.7 years)
Monazite ore from Amang or Tin Tailings in Malaysia = 284 Bq/gm
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm
It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant within a radius of 1 km is only 0.002 mSv/yr.
In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr. This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.
Dosage in Biological Effect in mSv.
Sleeping next to someone (husband or wife) daily for 8 hours = 0.02 mSv/yr (10x Lynas worst case)
Sleeping in wooden house = 0.20 mSv/yr (100x Lynas worst case)
Smoking a pack of cigarettes daily 0.20 mSv/yr (100x Lynas worst case)
Slag brick and granite house = up to 2.0 mSv/yr (1,000x Lynas worst case)
Chest X-ray = 0.10 mSv (50x Lynas worst case scenario)
Medical or dental X-ray 0.39 mSv(195x Lynas worst case scenario)
CT Scan (Chest) = 10 mSv (5,000x Lynas worst case scenario)
CT Fluoroscopy of abdomen and pelvis 6 to 90 mSv (median=31 mSv)
(Source: UNSCEAR and EPA and IAEA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RPOGzrqu1Vg
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
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“TRAGEDY” IN BUKIT MERAH” ?
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In Bukit Merah, the radiation comes from Thorium and Uranium which are our own and has been in Malaysia for billions of years.
Although the radiation level is well over 37 times that of the Lynas waste, there is no definite well controlled scientific proof that the cases of leukaemia and birth defects are caused by radiation from the waste.
COMPARISON OF RADIOACTIVITY IN Bq (Specific activity.. number of atoms decaying in 1second)
Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium (3 different isotopes) in our body and food = 31.825 Bq/gm
Artificially created Plutonium-238 = 634,000,000,000 Bq/gm (1/2 life=87.7 years)
MONAZITE ORE FROM AMANG (WASTE FORM TIN MINING) OR TIN
TAILINGS IN MALAYSIA = 284 Bq/G !
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm
Public dose limits for exposure from uranium mining or nuclear plants are usually set at 1 mSv per year above background.
According to the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurement (NCRP) and its international counterpart, the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP). Both of these organizations offer recommendations for the maximum permissible dose (MPD) of radiation.
General Public annual MPD by both NCRP and ICRP is 1 mSv.
For Radiation Workers, the annual MPD is 50 mSv (NCRP) and 20 mSv (ICRP), with a cumulative MPD of 10 mSv x Age.
MPD during pregnancy is 5 mSv (NCRP) and 2 mSv (ICRP).
However, experts including Professor Wade Allison of Oxford University argue that the dose limit can safely be raised to 100 millisieverts, based on current health statistics.
Compare this with the dose of 0.002 millisieverts/year of exposure for people living within 1 km of the Lynas plant in the worst case scenario (estimated by Lynas).
I have seen lots of cases of leukaemia and other types of cancer as well as birth defects over the last 40 years or so and unfortunately we do not have Lynas around at that time to use as a scapegoat.
Unscrupulous people have been using videos and pictures of patients with congenital abnormalities and other illnesses to instil fear into the population. There is absolutely no scientific proof that these cases are caused by radiation.
Only people with ulterior motives would use pictures and videos of these unfortunate patients whose disorders have nothing to do with radiation to score political points!
In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.
The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.
It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk within a 1 km radius from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.
In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr.
This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.
And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.
Remember the Tin slag from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.
And these radioactive tin slag were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.
The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slag!
The anti-Lynas people who are so paranoid about imported radiation from Australia should have a look at this paper published in the Malaysian Journal of Analytical Sciences which showed that the level of radiation in areas where tin was mined. The waste or amang contains high levels of Monazite and other minerals which are highly radioactive.
All these old tin mine areas are well populated. Note even Kuala Lumpur is also an ex-tin mining area.
A study was done University Technology MARA in Kg Gajah in Perak :
Quote: ” The level of surface dose varies from one location to another, but there is a critical area which has a significantly high surface dose approaching 30 microSv/hr ” Unquote
30 microSv/hr is about 260 mSv/year or about the same level as the highest recorded area in Ramsar!.
Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.
The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.
Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents and purposes, non-radioactive !
” Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.”
It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
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ANTI-LYNAS FOOT SOLDIER BY THE NAME OF JIN claimed that Thorium-232 adsorbed by clay can be easily leached out by the natural humic acid as evidenced by this research paper:
http://www.aseanenvironment.info/Abstract/41001316.pdf.
Quote anti-Lynas “quick Google scholar search gave me this research paper, which got my attention: “Evidence for radionuclide transport and mobilization in a shallow, sandy aquifer”. The adsorption of Thorium to clay mentioned by you can be ‘dissolved’ by natural humic/fulvic acid shown by manipulated experiment in real natural environment, and hence, leaching is possible. At least, in theory. Now this is not something I fabricated, it is from a research paper published in a well respected journal.” Unquote.
The paper which is titled: ” Evidence for Radionuclide Transport and Mobilization in a Shallow, Sandy Aquifer”
clearly states “SANDY AQUIFER” and definitely not “CLAY AQUIFER” .
THORIUM-232 IS ADSORBED BY CLAY AND NOT BY SAND.
Even the authors of this research stated unequivocally that “The
source of this increase in radionuclide concentrations must
therefore be the AQUIFER SANDS (see Table 11)
Was humic/fulvic acid injected into clay soil mentioned in any part of the paper?
The answer is an absolute NO! The paper was well researched and well written but was BADLY MISINTERPRETED BY SOMEONE WHO DO NOT HAVE THE INTELLIGENCE AND BASIC KNOWLEDGE TO READ SUCH PAPERS.
I repeat THORIUM-232 IS STRONGLY ADSORBED BY CLAY AND THORIUM-232 IS NOT ADSORBED BY SAND.
For the information of the anti-lynas camp, sand or crystalline silica (SiO2) is also classified by IARC as a group 1 carcinogen i.e. a definite cancer causing substance.
Being so fearful of carcinogens they should stage a huge demonstration to insist that all the sand in our beaches be dug out and sent to Singapore where the people are more intelligent and less ignorant and are more capable of appreciating this carcinogen called SAND!
This well written research paper does not show that Thorium-232 is easily leached by humic acid from clay soil.
What it does show up is the ignorance of certain people who are intransigently, irreversibly and irrevocably ADSORBED to self inflicted IGNORANCE.
A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IN THE HANDS OF THE IGNORANT IS A VERY DANGEROUS THING!
To the anti-Lynas people, do not ask me for reference to any scientific data when the whole lot of you cannot understand and properly analyse even simple scientific papers.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
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ANTI-LYNAS PARANOID ABOUT IMPORTED RADIATION.
The anti-Lynas people who are so paranoid about imported radiation from Australia should have a look at this paper published in the Malaysian Journal of Analytical Sciences which showed that the level of radiation in areas where tin was mined. The waste or amang contains high levels of Monazite and other minerals which are highly radioactive.
All these old tin mine areas are well populated. Note even Kuala Lumpur is also an ex-tin mining area.
This study was done in Kg Gagah in Perak :
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:CsxxK6PTXGwJ:www.ukm.my/mjas/v12_n2/zaini%2520hamzah.pdf+concentration+of+thorium+in+malaysian+soil&hl=en&gl=my&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi6dZOSD4j7m0JTW7CTVJRQoPlLPaLvlj0TlmGH81bgfv0iz6olM8A-TDVl5RJ7UThRG8OV7jJm1uj6C2sF2Xz1ip1oJTrPv5P2X7KbAoRXPQj1LTi16cmTfwjL8g6IVJlQCRE-&sig=AHIEtbQN1IoA3JZOvIjgUhbxyO45iKlDcw&pli=1
Quote: ” The level of surface dose varies from one location to another, but there is a critical area which has a significantly high surface dose approaching 30 microSv/hr ” Unquote
30 microSv/hr is about 260 mSv/year or about the same level as the highest recorded area in Ramsar!.
So in the paranoid minds of the anti-Lynas people they should either
1. Dig out all the soil in all the ex-tin mining areas in Malaysia which include the whole of the Kinta Valley and practically the Whole of the state of Selangor and send that to Australia. Or
2. All of them swim to Australia and claim refugee status (Refugees from imagined Radiation Danger).
I do not have any data on the ex-Sungai Lembing Tin mine. This was the world’s largest and deepest underground tin mine and the radiation level must be significantly high especially right inside the mine.
As such the anti-Lynas diehards of Kuantan should also swim to Australia and beg for forgiveness for wrongly “Fukushimizing” the Lynas Plant and hope that they will be accepted as Radiation Refugees!
Dato’ Dr Looi
ONLY THE PAS NUCLEAR SCIENTIST HAS THE MATURITY, moral courage, integrity and conscience to maintain that there is NO RADIATION DANGER from the Lynas Chemical Plant!
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Here are some more facts with regards to the Radiation and the Lynas controversy:
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Thoriun-232 is the only weakly radioactive element found in the Lynas waste product.
Thorium-232 decay produces only alpha particles which can be stopped by a piece of thin paper and cannot penetrate even the outer layer of the human skin, whereas potassium-40 in our normal diet produces the highly dangerous gamma and beta rays from all the 3 types of beta decay, i.e. electron emission, electron capture and positron emission.
A typical 5.5 MeV alpha particle can be expected to travel less than 0.005 cm in body fluids.
THE LONGER THE HALF-LIFE OF A SUBSTANCE THE LESS IS THE RADIOACTIVITY and as such the less dangerous it is.
As a simple analogy, if it takes 14,000,000,000 years for half of a house to be burnt, there is no chance of anybody getting hurt. But if it takes only 14 minutes for half of the house to be burnt down, a lot of people will be injured or killed.
Thorium-232 which is the only significant radioactive element found in the Lynas waste has an incredibly long half-life of 14 billion years and as such is much less radioactive than the Potassium-40 whose half-life is only 1.25 billion years.
Comparison of Radioactivity in Bq (number of atoms decaying in 1second)
Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium (3 different isotopes) in our body and food = 31.825 Bq/gm
Artificially created Plutonium-238 = 634,000,000,000 Bq/gm (1/2 life=87.7 years)
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm
It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.
In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr. This is 13,000,000%higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.
And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.
In the south western area of Kerala state in India, the Thorium-232 in the soil is as high as 4,000 parts per million as compared to the Lynas waste which has only 1,650 parts per million.
And studies have shown that the population which have been living all their lives in these areas, do not have a higher incidence of cancer and their blood and tissues do not have a significant increase in the level of Thorium.
We are exposed to radiation all our lives. In fact we get 4,400 Bq of radiation from the Potassium-40 with a further 3,000 Bq from Carbon-14 which forms part of our body tissues.
There is no way we can escape completely from radiation. Even outer space is full of radiation. The only way we can escape from all radiation is to leave this universe! or jump into the Kuantan River and be eaten by the crocodiles.
Come to think about it, this would not work either as human body as well as the croc’s body have their own intrinsic radioactivity!
Thorium-232 In Clay Soil Cannot Get Into Body Tissues
1. Ingestion
Thorium-232 is strongly bound (adsorbed) by soil especially clay soil. The Thorium concentration in the clay particles is about 500,000 % higher than in the water between the clay particles.
So, it cannot be leached out by water and pollute the rivers. Even if the clay soil is washed into the rivers and sea it will not do any harm as the thorium will still be strongly attached (adsorbed) to the clay and will not dissolve into the water.
When ingested there is insignificant absorption of the Thorium because of this strong bond between the clay particles and the Thorium. Practically all the Thorium will be excreted in the faeces with the clay.
Even when Thorium-232 is in the gut, it cannot do any significant harm as a typical 5.5 MeV alpha particle can be expected to travel less than 0.005 cm in body fluids, or much less in the semi-solid faeces.
That may be why, there is not a single well documented case of accidentally or environmentally ingested or inhaled Thorium-232 induced cancer in the intestines.
2. Inhalation
Because of its mass, Thorium-232 particles are very heavy and has great difficulty to get airborne.
Normally these particles get airborne only when they are very small and the only ones that can get deep into the lungs are those which are about 1 to 2 micron in diameter.
These fine particles are only found in the mines and experimental nuclear plants where powerful machines are used or where there is combustion. The chance of inhaling1 to 2 micron sized thorium particles in the Kuantan air is practically non-existent.
All lung disorders are associated with prolonged exposure in the mines or Thorium refining plants where the above conditions are present.
Thorium-232 produces only alpha rays (gamma rays from daughter isotopes are insignificant) which cannot pass through even a thin piece of paper or the surface of the skin.
If you have a lump of pure Thorium-232, all you need to do is to wrap it up in newspaper and that will stop all the alpha radiation from getting out!
Since alpha radiation cannot go far, even if you have a huge pile of Lynas waste, the external radiation would not increase by much because only the tiny percentage of thorium-232 atoms directly on the surface of the pile will be able to radiate out their alpha particles. Those just below the surface will remain inside the pile and be converted to simple helium gas.
The radiation of 6 Bq/gm from the weakly radioactive Thorium-232 in the Lynas waste is so low that even IAEA do not consider it significant and as such can be transported without any special permission.
Moreover, Thorium-232 is not a Carcinogen (cancer causing agent) if Inhaled or Ingested according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC.
Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.
It was claimed that a 20 year study in one of the largest rare earth mine, the Bayun Obo mine has shown that inhalation Thorium has proven to cause lung cancer. The number of miners in 2001 were 6,983 of which 3016 were exposed to dense dust in the mine.
After correcting for the heavy smoking, there was an excess of 10 cases of lung cancer in workers who had worked for about 30 years or so in the mine.
But this study cannot exclude crystalline silica (SiO2) in the dust as being the cause of the lung cancers. Silica is a confirmed carcinogen while Thorium by inhalation or ingestion is not.
AND MOREOVER, KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT RARE EARTH OR THORIUM MINERS!
The rare earth miners in the case of the Lynas Rare Earth Plant are still in a place called Mount Weld in Western Australia!
If there is any long term lung problem, the Australians are the ones who will be getting those problems and not the Kuantan people.
Kuantan people are just ordinary traders, office workers, taxi drivers or just hanging around doing nothing in the air-conditioned malls.
It is tantamount to claiming that since workers in the granite quarries and underground tin mines developed severe lung disease (silicosis) and lung cancer from inhaling dust containing silica (sand), the millions of tons of sand in our beaches should be relocated to somewhere safe or shipped back to…?Australia.
Definite evidence that crystalline silica (Sand, Sio2) is associated with an increased rate of lung cancer led the International Agency for Research on
Cancer (IARC) to conclude in 1997 that crystalline silica is a known human
carcinogen.
There is also a fear that the waste will be dumped all over the place. Unfortunately, this risk also apply to all our factories and plants. Should we demand that all our factories and plants to be closed down so that we can go back to the good old days of tapping rubber and plucking coconuts for the BIG WHITE MAN?
And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.) and, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons or Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air… and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.
3. External Threat
Thorium-232 produces only alpha rays (gamma rays from daughter isotopes are insignificant) which cannot pass through even a thin piece of paper or the surface of the skin.
Even a giant lump of Thorium-232 containing material will radiate alpha particles only from the tiny amount of Thorium-232 atoms on it’s surface as all the alpha particles produced by those inside the lump cannot penetrate even a couple of centimetres, so even if we have a small mountain of material containing Thorium-232, it makes not much difference
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A simple newspaper wrapping would stop all alpha radiation from a lump of Thorium-232.
Someone claimed that although Thorium-232 may not be dangerous, all their “daughter” isotopes have very short half-lives like Radon-220 and these are highly radioactive, so how could we say that Thorium-232 is not dangerous.
Well, the reason is obvious. But I find great difficulty in explaining to the layman the reason why when an element with an extremely long half-life that decays into isotopes with very short half-life, there is minimal accumulation of the short half-life isotopes and as such do not build up into a large enough quantity to pose any significant hazard.
I will try to explain by this simple analogy.
If there are 2 million people waiting outside a stadium and 1 million people managed to get into the stadium after 14,000,000,000 years (half-life of Thorium-232), it means that you will see only 1 person getting into the stadium every 14,000 years.
But once in the stadium the half-life of the new person (half-life of Radon-220 from the Thorium-232 decay chain is only 55 seconds) is so short when compared with those outside (Thorium-232) that he has left the stadium almost immediately. Getting in is extremely slow but getting out is extremely fast!
Since only 1 person gets into the stadium every 14,000 years, if you look into the stadium you will see it as empty most of the time!
It is just like trying to fill up a bucket by a slow, slow drop by drop drip and the bucket has a big hole at the bottom. If you look into the bucket you will see practically little or no water in it!
Since the Lynas waste product has only 6 Bq/gm of radioactivity, the chance of detecting any significant amount of radon gas is pretty slim indeed.
4.Unnatural Routes of Entry
The only way Thorium can gain entry into the body is by injection. In the past where huge doses of 25cc to 50 cc of a 25%solution of Thorium dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into the vein for contrast radiological studies, a very small number of patients were believed to have developed cancers 20 to 30 years later. Even with these extremely high unnatural doses, there was no acute toxicity.
In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.
The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.
Over the last 45 years since I developed a special interest in nuclear medicine and particle physics, I have not come across any well documented and well proven report of any human being severely injured or killed by accidental or environmental inhalation or ingestion of Thorium-232.
We need to compare this with the 15,000 people murdered in the USA every year and the 2 to 3 million people killed by Malaria worldwide yearly!
So if Thorium cannot enter the body in significant amounts by ingestion or inhalation and alpha rays do not pose an external threat, what’s all the big fuss about the Lynas rare earth plant ?
5. Australians building Giant Rare Earth Plant in Australia:
It should also be noted that Australians are delighted that a company called Arafura is building a huge Rare Earth Processing Plant costing over A$1 Billion in Whyalla in South Australia.
This plant is expected to produce over 1,000 high paying jobs for the Australians.
Arafura must be hoping that we are stupid enough to stop Lynas and stop competing with them.
Remember the Tin slag from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.
And these radioactive tin slag were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.
The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slag!
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
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MEMBERS OF THE ANTI-LYNAS CROWD HAVE BEEN ASKING SOME VERY CHILDISH AND RIDICULOUS QUESTIONS (repeatedly parroted more as a means of cyber harassment than for any form of intellectual benefit).
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Some of the best examples are:
1. If you think it is so safe why don’t you eat it?
Answer: Since my cooked SH*T IS ALSO SAFE, would YOU like to eat it?
(What I mean is that if something is safe or not radioactive, it does not necessarily mean that you have to eat it!)
This chain question probably started when one of the young, inexperienced politicians asked another to drink drain water and since then this question has been brainlessly parroted by some of his followers.
2. If you think it is so safe, why don’t you put it in your fridge?
Answer: Since my cooked SH*T IS ALSO SAFE, why don’t YOU put it in YOUR fridge?
3. If you think there is no radioactivity why don’t you live next to the Lynas plant?
Answer (Short answer. If you want a longer answer, please refer to my posts in other blogs):
A pigs farm or even a huge oil palm factory also do not have any significant radioactivity, so why don’t you live next to it?
4. Can you guarantee me that the Lynas plant is 100% safe
Answer: AND AS FAR AS THE 100% BUSINESS IS CONCERNED, THE ONLY THING IN LIFE WHICH WE CAN BE A 100% SURE OF IS THE CEMETERY AND THE LAVATORY. IF WE HAVE TO GO, WE HAVE TO GO 100%.
5. THE MOTHER OF ALL INFANTILE QUESTIONS, asked by an accountant in Anti-Lynas crowd.
Do you know the difference between
1 sodium metal in the lab and sodium ion in sea water?
2 iron metal power, iron oxide powder, iron salt ions?
3 lead metal , lead oxide , lead ions of the heavy metal ?
4 thorium metal powder, thorium hydroxide and rare earth waste thorium ions as heavy metallic ions ?
ANSWER:
IF YOU CAN ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS,
I THINK I MIGHT TAKE SOME LSD AND PROCEED TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASKED ABOVE.
Do you know the difference between
1 black hair on your head and brown hair in my the toilet?
2 telekom power, purple coffee powder, blue curry powder?
3 coconut husk, coconut roots, coconut leaves of tall Angsana trees?
4 arsenic tetrahydrococonut, arsenic monodurian, and arsenic as rare earth waste thorium non-ionic as heavy metallic non-submersible non-iron ironic nano-ions nonsense?
The list of infantile unintelligent questions goes on and on and on.
All these continuously repeated and parroted non-physical questions and statements will not serve the anti-lynas objective but only characterise the anti-lynas folk as childish, non-thinking ill-informed people with IQs which I would rather not mention!
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
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QUESTION BY ANTI-LYNAS: “CAN YOU BE SURE THAT THE LYNAS PLANT IS 100% SAFE ?
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AND AS FAR AS THE 100% BUSINESS IS CONCERNED, THE ONLY THING IN LIFE WHICH WE CAN BE A 100% SURE OF IS THE CEMETERY AND THE LAVATORY. IF WE HAVE TO GO, WE HAVE TO GO 100%.
The chance dying one day is 100%. So there is no need to worry about it!
• Dying from heart disease — 1 in 6 (lifetime risk)
• Dying in an auto accident — 1 in 75 (lifetime risk)
• Committing suicide — 1 in 71 (lifetime risk)
• Being Murdered — 1 in 140 (lifetime)
DYING FROM CANCER – 1 in 5 (lifetime risk)
• Being struck by lightning — 1 in 10,456 (lifetime)
• Seriously injuring yourself while shaving — 1 in 5,844 (annual risk)
• Going to prison this year — 1 in 139
• Dying from falling out of your bed or chair — 1 in 513,142
• Being stuck and killed by a falling aircraft — 1 in 25 million
• Getting food poisoning — 1 in 8 (annual risk)
• Hiring a sleazy lawyer — 1 in 8
• Freezing to death — 1 in 780,938 (annual risk)
SO ANTI-LYNAS FOLKS, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO DIE FROM CANCER OR SOMETHING NASTY, THE BEST THING TO DO IS NOT TO BE BORN!
If one is already born, the best way to avoid dying from cancer is to die young from other illnesses like dengue or malaria or from accidents!
MAYBE, IF ONE IS ALREADY BORN, ONE OF THE MOST PLEASANT WAY TO DIE IS TO DIE UNDER GA (GENERAL ANAESTHESIA) WHEN HAVING A SURGICAL OPERATION.
VERY PLEASANT, NO PAIN, NO KNOWLEDGE AND YOU DIE UNDER THE CLEAR KNOWLEDGE THAT YOUR WIFE AND FAMILY WILL BE able to sue the surgeon and hospital for millions of dollars.
Warmest regards and forget about the RADIATION!
The risk of dying from a road traffic related accident in Malaysia is much higher than that which has been predicted for the death from radiation induced cancers.
For instance in 2009, there were 6,745 deaths in a population of 27.9 million giving a rate of 24.17 deaths per 100,000.
The main reason why the people of Kuantan is so frightened of the “Fukushimization” of the Lynas plant is pure and simple politics.
The chairman of the coalition of one of the anti-lynas organisation said in one of the Blogs:
Quote: “Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you, the will of the people must prevail, IRREGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE LAMP IS SAFE OR NOT1″ Unquote.
What the above statement means in simple non-Australian English is that THE WHOLE ISSUE IS 100% POLITICS AND THERE IS REALLY NOTHING WRONG WITH THE LYNAS PROJECT except that it is a fantastic political tool for certain politicians to gain POWER.
ONCE THE GENERAL ELECTION IS OVER, LYNAS WILL BECOME A HIGHLY BENEFICIAL PROJECT especially if they win!
THERE ARE NO DANGEROUS RADIATION, NO TOXIC WASTE PROBLEM BUT A LOT OF TOXIC, RADIOACTIVE POLITICIANS with a lot of innocent naive brainwashed followers (probably including the big fat chief).
Dr Looi.
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ANTI-LYNAS FOLKS ARE ADDICTED TO EXAGGERATION.
e.g. RIDICULOUS CLAIM: 1 QUARTER OF A MILLION PEOPLE SUPPORTED THE GREENIES DURING BERSIH 3 !
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Quote: Lu Cheng Long
“Everyone claims that their view represent the majority. So the majority really reject Lynas? I don’t know, but anti Lynas people sure make a lot noise. But we know well informed people support Lynas.
ANOTHER THING IS DURING BERSIH 3, I SAW LOTS AND LOTS OF YELLOW, ONLY A HANDFUL OF PITIFUL GREEN. IT MUST BE A VERY HARD FEELING FOR ANTI LYNAS PEOPLE THINKING THAT THE NATION IS WITH THEM’ Unquote
Helicopter pictures of the main section of the crowd with subsequent computer analysis of “Bersih 3″ published in the Sin Chew Newspaper (yes, the Sin Chew Newspaper which is very sympathetic to the anti lynas people ) showed that the total number of people attending the demonstration in the main section was less than 5,000 people and not 250,000 people as claimed by some.
And only a tiny miserable proportion of these people are the “GREENIES”.
This type of gross exaggeration is very typical of the anti-lynas crowd.
Now you know how a simple chemical plant can be magically and conveniently transformed in to a Nuclear Plant!
HOPE THE SO CALLED INTERNATIONAL DEMONSTRATION NEXT WEEK BY A FEW MALAYSIAN GREENIES (OR BLACK SHIRTIES) AND A FEW AUSTRALIAN LOONIES WILL NOT BE INTERPRETED AS A WORLD WIDE ANTI-LYNAS DEMONSTRATION !
REMEMBER, THERE ARE ABOUT 194 COUNTRIES WITH ABOUT 600,000 CITIES AND TOWNS IN THE WORLD.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjT1kUAy_08&feature=player_detailpage
At least 100,000 ppl in Bersih 3.0 and less than 5% are anti-Lynas supporters.
My best estimate is 100,000 to 150,000 ppl attended Bersih 3.0. 250,000 ppl is definitely over estimated.
That computer analysis was taken after 95% demonstrators going home.
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Dear NK Khoo,
Thanks for the information.
Warmest regards.
Dr Looi
Dr Looi’s talent should be exploited by BN in its media e.g granting him an exclusive interview on TV3 and Astro Awani. nkkhoo can tag along as interpreter.
Dr. Looi is speaking out for truth, not for BN. He will not represent BN for money like me.
NICK TSURIKOV, RADIATION SAFETY SPECIALIST, ON LYNAS PLANT, QUOTE:
“The following has been confirmed way too many times and has NEVER EVER been proven to be false by anyone:
1. Radiation from the plant will be undetectable outside the boundaries;
2. None of the materials have to be signposted as ‘radioactive’ for transport – as per international regulations, since 1996;
3. In accordance with international guidelines, the plant can be allowed to operate pretty much anywhere in the world with minimal regulation;
4. Vast majority of tailings will have only half of thorium that is in normal Malaysian soil;
5. Thorium in other waste is insoluble and cannot ‘poison’ any plants, animals or the environment – even in theory;
6. Blending of tailings follows the basic safety principle of World Health Organisation, International Labour Organisation and seven more UN and other reputable international organisation – with guidelines on this existing in many countries;
7. Maximum dose to workers is not expected to be more that ~25% of the limit, therefore – in accordance with international guidelines – personal monitoring is not even necessary: the doses are so low that they can be assessed for a ‘work group’, no need for ‘individual’ assessments. Unquote.
ORE FOR LYNAS PLANT = 1,600 ppm (parts per million)
2 MOST VOLUMINOUS LYNAS “WASTE” = 12 ppm
SMALL 3rd RESIDUE STREAM = 1,500 ppm of Thorium
AVERAGE MALAYSIAN SOIL = 20 ppm OF THORIUM
Nick Tsurikov, Radiation Safety Expert: ” THE MAJORITY OF THIS LYNAS “WASTE” WILL HAVE ONLY HALF THE THORIUM THAN IN NORMAL MALAYSIAN SOIL.
So, in fact most of Lynas residues are only half as radioactive as the sand the kids all over Malaysia play in the kindergartens” (Note: Sand or crystalline SiO2 is also classified as a group 1 Carcinogen by IARC).
If you do look through the Lynas RIA together with UN (not IAEA) reports – you will clearly see that two most ‘voluminous’ residues from LAMP will have less than 12 parts per million of thorium – and the average Malaysian soil – 20 parts per million of thorium. Of course, the third ‘residue stream’ will have about 1500 ppm of thorium and will need to be managed appropriately
Dr Looi
The issue is anti-Lynas harping on Papan rare earth issue, but dispute on rare earth factory in France is different with Lynas.
How on earth you could deal with such double standard people? They are growing to mob-type crowd.
拯救大马委员会7月14日全国同步反稀土厂集会文宣~ 第三篇
瞒天过海
…”反之科学家们称，因辐射致癌的科学研究是极度复杂的工作，他们需要更多的数据及时间来进行更详尽的研究，他们作出的推论是现阶段并没有足够的数据证明低剂量辐射是有害或是无害（注二到四）。”
Jumping into South China Sea is also not sure is good or bad for anti-Lynas people. The world must believe your nonsense.
由拯救大马委员会（SMSL）所举办的“714全国同步反莱纳斯集会”在麻坡及礼让县如期举行，逾2千名民众参与投票，而其中麻坡及东甲共收到1千652张票，支持停止运作关丹稀土厂。此外，也有超过400名民众聚集在麻坡黄金丹绒广场，声援关丹的居民，响应反对稀土厂运作，并收集到475张票。
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QUOTE ANTI-LYNAS FOOT SOLDIER: “DURING THE RECENT “INTERNATIONAL” DEMONSTRATION AGAINST LYNAS, A VOTE WAS TAKEN AND NEARLY ALL THE VOTERS ARE AGAINST LYNAS”.
Misusing, Misrepresenting and Misinterpreting legitimate scientific methodology and statistical analysis in order to distort the truth and further enhance the misinformation they have engraved into the innocent minds of their naive and innocent brainwashed followers, is the classical hallmark of the Anti-Lynas clique.
They assume that all Malaysians have IQs that would make even a chimpanzee laugh !
If you are to hold a “DEMONcratic” vote among Anti-Lynas people who are fanatical enough to take the trouble to go to a demonstration in order to massage the ego of their egoistic master brainwasher, it will not take even the intelligence of a 1 year old child to know what the outcome would be.
IT IS TANTAMOUNT TO TAKING A VOTE AT AN INTERNATIONAL PURE VEGETARIAN CONVENTION TO ASSESS HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD ARE AGAINST EATING MEAT.
And…… out comes… the answer :…”99.9999% OF THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD ARE AGAINST EATING MEAT ! (not 100% only because a couple of people accidentally drop the slip into the wrong box like what they did in Kuantan !)
This type of statistics is best confined to the garbage bin. Come to think about it even the garbage bin is too clean for such crab ! Even the garbage bin might object !
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK) MRCP(London)
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http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242
THORIUM-232, THOROTRAST, RADIATION AND CANCER
I have known about the controversy of Thorotrast (a 25 cc vail of a 25% colloidal suspension of Thorium dioxide) since I was a medical student in Manchester about 45 years ago and in fact I have been collecting a fair amount of data with regards to this contrast media.
Thorotrast was given as a contrast media via the vein and the dose of Thorium used was huge, though this depends on the type of radiological procedure done.
It had been estimated that as many as 4 million people were given this contrast in the 1930 to late 1950s.
It has been claimed that there was an increase in the incidence of cancers especially of the liver.
However, we need to consider a number of factors before we can be sure that this is the real culprit.
1) The radiation dose from those old X-ray machines in the 1930 to 1950s are hundreds of times that of the present machines.
For instance an 1896 X-ray machine was tested and found to have exposed the body to 1,500 times more radiation than modern technology does, largely because each image took 90 minutes to develop, dramatically increasing the patient’s cumulative exposure to the rays. By 1930 to 1950s, the radiation dose have improved a lot but still much higher than the present X-ray machines.
Modern day X-rays require only about 21 milliseconds, and technicians place lead coverings over the body to protect vital organs from even this slight exposure.
Even in the 50s and 60s, the dose of X-rays from Tuberculosis screening is about 100 times higher than that of today’s Chest X-Ray.
The fluoroscope leaves the X-ray beam “on” while the physician does his examination and as such, the fluoroscope has the potential to deliver very high X-ray doses.
In the 1920s, fluoroscopy became very popular procedure not only among radiologists, but also among many kinds of physicians.
Radiological methods of diagnosis became so important that no investigation of a patient is considered complete without the X-rays, which generally include fluoroscopy. These studies are often carried out by a general practitioner or surgeon in his office.
In 1942, Dr. Franz Buschke and Herbert M. Parker wrote (Buschke 1942):
“Recently we became aware of the fact that apparently a number of pediatricians include fluoroscopy in the monthly routine examinations of infants in their care during the first and second years of life.” This pediatric practice is confirmed in Pifer 1963 and in Blatz 1970.
After studying the radiation output of seven fluoroscopes in the offices of “reputable pediatricians selected at random,” Buschke and Parker estimated (Buschke 1942, p.527): “If the average rapid fluoroscopy by an experienced and well-adapted examiner takes twenty seconds, about 8.3 roentgens [entrance dose] will be delivered at this rate or 100 roentgens during the first year of life.” The roentgen is a dose-unit which is approximately equivalent to a rad (actually it is less as the ICRU defined the roentgen to be 2.58e -4 C/Kg in 1971)
Fluoroscopy was popular also in hospitals.
(Braestrup 1942, p.213):
“During the past years, we have measured the roentgen output of large numbers of fluoroscopes, using the settings at which they are normally operated … and have found a very wide variation … Attention is called particularly to test B-116, where the R [roentgen] per minute at the panel was 127, that is, an erythema dose would be reached in about three minutes. Such a unit could be classified as a lethal diagnostic weapon and yet there are many of these still in use.”
Of the various types of radiologic equipment, the mobile unit probably has been responsible for more radiation damage than any other piece of apparatus. These accidents have in most cases occurred while the mobile unit was used for fluoroscopy by surgeons, who apparently did not realize the high output obtained at short distances.”
In an attempt to prevent some injuries, A LIMIT OF 100 ROENTGENS (approximately 1,000 mSv) per fluoroscopic examination was set in New York City hospitals (Braestrup 1969).
The patients who received the Thorotrast were subjected to a huge dose of X-rays from these antique X-ray machines.
This huge dose of X-rays may be the cause of most of the cancers, we just do not know as most of the studies are unable to assess the X-ray’s dose. All these studies are done 20 to 30 years later.
So we cannot use other patients who have X-rays done in the 1930s to 1950s as a control group since most X-rays which do not need a contrast media consist of only 1 or 2 X-ray pictures.
It is generally accepted that the risk of radiation induced cancer is 1 in 20,000 per mSv.
As such, a dose of about 1,000 mSv would mean a risk of 1 in 20. For 4 million patients injected with Thorotrast, THIS RADIATION WOULD GIVE RISE TO AN EXCESS OF 200,000 CASES OF RADIATION INDUCED CANCERS IN THE 4 MILLION CASES OF “THOROTRAST” PATIENTS!
In 1953, Dade W. Moeller (then of the Public Health Service; later, president of the Health Physics Society) published an estimate that the average entrance dose per fluoroscopic examination was about 65 roentgens (about 650 mSv) at mid-century (Moeller 1953, pp.58-59).
The use of Thorotrast was discontinued by 1953.
2) The contrast studies are usually done for patients who are rather ill and may have multiple other disorders.
The cancers usually appear (as most cancers do) about 20 to 30 years later when the patients reach the “cancer” age. Because of this long lapse of cause and effect, all the studies are retrospective in nature.
And as you know, all retrospective studies are full of problems and inaccuracies.
3) A lot of these patients, have other disorders which may also lead to cancer like alcoholic cirrhosis, hepatitis B and hepatitis C. In fact the first case of liver cancer I saw in Manchester was an old alcoholic with severe liver cirrhosis. But he also had Thorotrast contrast study more than 20 years earlier. Because of this history, the surgeon had to report him as a Thorotrast induced cancer.
4) With about 4 million by now old people, we are bound to come across a lot of cancer cases. Since the life time risk of cancer in the advanced countries is 1 in 5, there should be about 800,000 cases of cancer due to other causes.
So how many if any of these (taking into account all the above problems) are really caused by the radiation from the massive dose of intravenous Thorium-232… nobody can be really sure. If anybody says he can tell, then either he is lying or he does not know what he is saying.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK) MRCP(London)
CONFUSION ON THE SPECIFIC ACTIVITY OF THORIUM-232 IN ONE OF THE LYNAS “WASTE” STREAM…..6.2 Bq/g or 62 Bq/g ?
It looks like a lot of people do not have even the basic knowledge of radioactivity concentrations and the various methods of calculating the specific activity of the radionuclides, especially of the series radionuclide.
There are essentially two ways of doing this, one is old fashioned way which use the total activity and the other is the modern currently in use and internationally accepted one and this uses only the concentration of the “mother” radionuclide.
Old method: “Since each atom of Thorium-232 decays into 11 other atoms of other radionuclides (12 atoms involved), each Bq of Thorium-232 had been assumed to be multiplied by a factor of 10 (10 because the end result Lead-208 is considered non-radioactive though this may not be true as it still has a half life of 19 million billion years, and Bismuth-212 decays either into Polonium-212 or to Thallium-208 both of which then decay into Lead-208..so Po-212 and Tl-208 can be considered as 1 Bq only).”
Quote: International Radiation Safety Expert Nick Tsurikov:
” On this basis, if a material contains 400 parts per million of thorium – its specific activity is calculated as follows:
a) Outdated method – 400 x 4.09 (specific activity of Th-232) x 10 (number of radio nuclides in the thorium decay chain) = 16,360 Bq/kg, or 16.4 Bq/g
b) International standard (IAEA, AELB and Australia) – 400 x 4.09 = 1,630 Bq/kg, or 1.64 Bq/g.”
Unquote.
The Anti-Lynas folk is now using this old fashion way of looking at specific activity to confuse the people.
Because of all this, they claim that the Lynas “waste” is not 6.2 Bq/g but 62 Bq/g and Lynas has been misleading the people about the radioactivity.
The truth is that nobody, except some of the Chinese in China still use this non-standard way of looking at specific activity of a series radionuclide.
The old method has been discontinued internationally since about 1997.
Actually, when we use the standard description “Lynas waste has only 6.2 Bq/g”, we have already factored in the radiation from all the daughter radionuclides.
For instance, all the dose coefficients given by IAEA of 0.39 microSv/hr/Bq/g for radiation at 1 metre from a pile of Thorium, and by UNSCEAR of 0.604 microSv/hr/Bq/gm for radiation dose from an infinite field of Thorium DEMANDS THAT WE USE THE STANDARD WAY OF DESCRIBING SPECIFIC ACTIVITY i.e. 1 Bq of activity in both a series or single non-series decay means 1 atom of the “mother” radionuclide decaying.
So as far as the dosage in terms of biological effects is concerned, whether we use the standard 6.2 Bq/g or the old Chinese way of 62 Bq/g to describe the radioactivity of the Lynas “waste”, there is NO DIFFERENCE, as, if we were to use the old Chinese 62 Bq/g, we will have to divide the IAEA and UNSCEAR coefficients by a factor of 10.
Dato’ Dr Looi
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http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242
Quote:
“Odysess Sin Ner >>………..I am interested to know how does 64,000 tons/annum of acidic thorium will behave in a swampy, wet and leaky condition. Please do not divert the topic and talk about politics that thorium is not soluble. This is truly a coward act and deceiving saying. People is talking about fact but you are mentioning about politics. Oh ya… it is pricking your bone isn’t it? Step up like a man and quench my keen to know as my statement says.” Unquote
Answer:
The figure of 64,000 tons per year of Thorium alleged to be produced by the Lynas plant is too ridiculous to be true.
Let’s see…
The Lynas ore from Mount Weld contains less than 1,600 ppm (parts per million of Thorium) so:
1,600 tons of Thorium = 1,000,000 tons of Ore.
64,000 tons of Thorium = 64,000 x 1 million divided by 1,600
= 40,000,000 tons of Ore !!
WHERE ON EARTH IS LYNAS GOING TO FIND THE SHIPS TO CARRY 40,000,000 TONS OF ORE PER YEAR FROM AUSTRALIA TO KUANTAN !!
IF A GIANT LORRY COULD CARRY 4 TONS, WE NEED 10,000,000 LORRY LOADS TO CARRY THE ORE FROM THE PORT TO THE PLANT !
THIS IS THE TYPE OF GROSS EXAGGERATION THAT IS VERY TYPICAL OF THE ANTI-LYNAS FOLK.
Actually, Lynas is expected to produce about 820,000 tons of WLP in the 1st 10 years of operation or 82,000 tons of WLP per year.
The WLP (Water Leached Product) contains less than 1,600 ppm or 0.16 % of Thorium-232.
As such we would expect to get only 0.0016 x 82,000 tons of Thorium per year i.e.131 tons of Thorium per year AND NOT 64,000 TONS OF THORIUM PER YEAR !
This magical transformation of 131 tons of Thorium into 64,000 tons of Thorium reminds me of this joke:
“For normal people 1 + 1 = 2 but for those people in the Share Market 1 + 1 = 11,”
AND OF COURSE, FOR THE ANTI-LYNAS FOLK, 131 = 64,000 !
Dato’ Dr Looi.
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http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242
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DO YOU KNOW THAT COFFEE HAS A RADIOACTIVITY OF 1,000 Bq/Kg?
And yet:
According to recent research, Coffee is good for you:
Quote: “Mental and Medical Benefits of Coffee:
From Medscape:
The best part of waking up…is reducing your risk of neurodegeneration. And depression, and cancer, and cardiovascular disease… It’s becoming increasingly clear that coffee is more than just a morning routine.
…
The body of data suggesting that the world’s most widely used stimulant is beneficial in a variety of mental and medical conditions is growing at a staggering rate.
A recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that COFFEE CONSUMPTION LOWERED ALL-CAUSE MORTALITY BY OVER 10% AT 13 YEAR FOLLOW-UP.” Unquote
According to Shakespeare,
“ALCOHOL PROVOKES THE DESIRE BUT TAKES
AWAY THE PERFORMANCE”……. WHEREAS COFFEE
EVOKES THE DESIRE AND REINSTATES YOUR
PREVIOUS MAGNIFICENT PERFORMANCE !
SO DRINK MORE COFFEE AND FORGET ABOUT THE
RADIATION.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
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http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242
IT IS A CHILDISH NONSENSICAL AND BRAINLESS ARGUMENT TO LINK THE ULTRA MODERN LYNAS CHEMICAL PLANT TO THE OLD BUKIT MERAH REE PLANT.
Quote:
” I dare you to look at the eyes of Bukit Merah victims and Gebeng people and tell them that everything is okay.” Unquote
Of course I would dare to look into their eyes ……….. and tell them that they are being made used of by very unscrupulous, irresponsible and despicable people who exploit their misfortune for DIRTY POLITICAL GAINS !
For God’s sake, the ultra-modern Lynas Rare Earth Chemical plant is not Bukit Merah.
THESE DEMORALIZED, DESPERATE, DEBUNKED AND INTELLECTUALLY DESTITUTE ANTI-LYNAS DEMONS are still DESPERATELY AND REPEATEDLY PARROTING THE MISLEADING MISINFORMATION AND ASKING NONSENSICAL QUESTIONS THAT THEIR DEVIOUS BRAINY BRAINWASHER’S DEMONIC BRAIN HAS PERMANENTLY AND IRREVOCABLY INGRAINED INTO THEIR BRAINLESS BRAINWASHED BRAIN.
I AM REALLY NAUSEATED AND SAD THAT THERE ARE
HUMANS OR RATHER JUST OVERZEALOUS ZOMBIES IN THIS WORLD WHO WOULD RUN DOWN THEIR OWN COUNTRY BY CREATING A SCAPEGOAT IN AN ULTRA-MODERN CHEMICAL PLANT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF ENABLING THEIR MASTER BRAINWASHER TO GAIN A FEW EXTRA FILTHY VOTES IN THE COMING GENERAL ELECTION.
DO THEY CARE 2 HOOTS ABOUT THE 1,750 PEOPLE DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY EMPLOYED BY LYNAS AND WHOSE SALARIES OR INCOME ARE NEEDED TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLES FOR THEIR FAMILIES TO SURVIVE?
DO THEY CARE WHETHER THESE POOR HARD WORKING INNOCENT FELLOW HUMANS HAVE A JOB AND A HOME AND FOOD FOR THEIR CHILDREN ?
ALL THEY THINK ABOUT IS TO DESTROY LYNAS AND STOP THE CONSTRUCTION ANY NEW PROJECTS WHICH PROVIDE JOBS, SHELTER, FOOD AND A DECENT LIFE FOR THE POOR PEOPLE……….WHILE THEY THEMSELVES HAVE A COZY JOB, SHELTER AND PLENTY OF FOOD FOR THEIR CHILDREN.
IF THESE BRAINWASHED ZOMBIES ARE SO CARING, WHY DON’T THEY PROVIDE THE JOBS AND PROVIDE THE FOOD AND SHELTER FOR THE POOR PEOPLE INSTEAD OF JUST EMPTY TALK !
In Bukit Merah, the radiation comes from Thorium and Uranium which are our own and has been in Malaysia for billions of years.
Although the radiation level is well over 37 times that of the Lynas waste, there is no definite well controlled scientific proof that the cases of leukaemia and birth defects are caused by radiation from the waste.
COMPARISON OF RADIOACTIVITY IN Bq (Specific activity.. number of atoms decaying in 1second)
Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium (3 different isotopes) in our body and food = 31.825 Bq/gm
Artificially created Plutonium-238 = 634,000,000,000 Bq/gm (1/2 life=87.7 years)
Monazite ore from Amang or Tin Tailings in Malaysia = 284 Bq/gm
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm
Public dose limits for exposure from uranium mining or nuclear plants are usually set at 1 mSv per year above background.
According to the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurement (NCRP) and its international counterpart, the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP). Both of these organizations offer recommendations for the maximum permissible dose (MPD) of radiation.
General Public annual MPD by both NCRP and ICRP is 1 mSv.
For Radiation Workers, the annual MPD is 50 mSv (NCRP) and 20 mSv (ICRP), with a cumulative MPD of 10 mSv x Age.
MPD during pregnancy is 5 mSv (NCRP) and 2 mSv (ICRP).
However, experts including Professor Wade Allison of Oxford University argue that the dose limit can safely be raised to 100 millisieverts, based on current health statistics.
Compare this with the dose of 0.002 millisieverts/year of exposure for people living within 1 km of the Lynas plant in the worst case scenario (estimated by Lynas).
I have seen lots of cases of leukaemia and other types of cancer as well as birth defects over the last 40 years or so and unfortunately we do not have Lynas around at that time to use as a scapegoat.
Unscrupulous people have been using videos and pictures of patients with congenital abnormalities and other illnesses to instil fear into the population. There is absolutely no scientific proof that these cases are caused by radiation.
Only people with ulterior motives would use pictures and videos of these unfortunate patients whose disorders have nothing to do with radiation to score political points!
In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.
The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.
It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk within a 1 km radius from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.
In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr.
This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.
And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.
Remember the Tin slag from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.
And these radioactive tin slag were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.
The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slag!
The anti-Lynas people who are so paranoid about imported radiation from Australia should have a look at the paper published in the Malaysian Journal of Analytical Sciences which showed that the level of radiation in areas where tin was mined. The waste or amang contains high levels of Monazite and other minerals which are highly radioactive.
All these old tin mine areas are well populated. Note even Kuala Lumpur is also an ex-tin mining area.
A study was done University Technology MARA in Kg Gajah in Perak :
Quote: ” The level of surface dose varies from one location to another, but there is a critical area which has a significantly high surface dose approaching 30 microSv/hr ” Unquote
30 microSv/hr is about 260 mSv/year or about the same level as the highest recorded area in Ramsar!.
Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.
The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.
Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents and purposes, non-radioactive !
” Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE.”
It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.
Dato’ Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjT1kUAy_08&feature=player_detailpage
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Quote: Anti-Lynas:
“Bukit merah (malaysia), bopal (india), chenobly (russia) and every other industries always has the same vision until it went bad.” Unquote.
“TITANIC (BRITAIN) death = 1,496; THE EMPRESS OF IRELAND (CANADA) death = 1,012; FERRY DONA PAZ (PHILLIPINES) death = 4,340; STAR FERRY (SCANDINAVIA) death = 159; FERRY ESTONIA, death = 852 and the Costa Concordia and every other passenger ship industry has the same vision until it went bad.
SO USING THE SAME PERVERTED UNINTELLIGENT NONSENSICAL NONPHYSICAL LOGIC,
STOP ALL PASSENGER SHIPS FROM SAILING IN THE EVER DANGEROUS SEAS !!!!!
Dato’ Dr Looi
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0MFxBkxNX6g
1. Malaysian Journal of Nuclear and Related Technology
THE ANNUAL DOSE RATE EXPOSURE FROM MALAYSIAN
CLAY BRICK HOUSE = 0.43 mSv/year
(215 x Lynas Worst Case Scenario)
2. SLEEPIN IN WOODEN HOUSE = 0.20 mSv/yr
(100x Lynas worst case)
3. SLAG BRICK AND GRANITE HOUSE = up to 2.0 mSv/yr
(1,000x Lynas worst case)
SO TO ALL ANTI-LYNAS FOLKS, YOU SHOULD PITCH UP A TENT NEXT TO THE LYNAS PLANT AND SEND YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY TO LIVE NEXT TO LYNAS AS THIS IS HUNDREDS OF TIMES LESS RADIOACTIVE THAN LIVING IN YOUR PRESENT WOODEN OR BRICK HOUSES !
Dato’ Dr Looi
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjT1kUAy_08&feature=player_detailpage
That was exactly I told anti-Lynas fools to stay in the tents.
Dear NK Khoo,
You are absolutely right.
These Anti-Lynas folks should live in tents and should sell off their brick or wooden houses cheap, cheap to people like you and me who are not paranoid about radiation.
Warmest regards,
Dr Looi.
A lot of people in this country, especially the Chinese, do not know the following:
1. Malaysia is NOT a democracy with proportional representation. As such if the a segment of the population of a certain religion have only 50.01% of the votes, they can statistically end up with 100% of the seats.
The Muslim population in Malaysia is now over 65%.
So getting 2/3rd majority and have the Constitution changed, is not a problem at all.
2. Once the motion for Hudud Law is tabled in the Parliament, ALL Muslims have a religious obligation to vote FOR it.
PAS SECRETARY-GENERAL DATUK MUSTAFA ALI spoke to Sin Chew Daily in an interview over the hudud issue recently.
Asked if Muslim MPs from the Barisan Nasional would support PAS if it moves a motion to amend the constitution to pave the way for hudud, he said:
“Even if we do this in the Parliament, Umno will not agree to implement hudud.
“BUT SINCE THEY ARE MUSLIMS, THEY CANNOT OPPOSE IT..”
Dato’ Dr Looi
So what exactly is the point you are trying to make?
Putting so much quote without any personal assessment?
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RADIOACTIVITY IN THE LIFE SAVING MEDICALLY PRESCRIBED POTASSIUM.
The potassium chloride salt that is prescribed by dieticians as an adjunct for high blood pressure therapy as well as the potassium chloride used by the medical profession, is radioactive with a radioactivity of 32 Bq/gm.
(1 Becquerel or Bq is 1 nuclear decay per second.)
It is a real surprise that the vast majority of doctors, including senior consultants, professors and university lecturers do not know this.
The radioactivity comes from Potassium-40 (K-40) which is a naturally-occurring radioactive material or NORM.
Wherever there is potassium, there is potassium-40. It constitutes 0.0117% of natural potassium.
Potassium-40 is a beta (87.3%) and gamma (10.67%) emitter and contributes to both internal and external doses. The other 2 isotopes of potassium are K-39 and K-41 and both of these are considered to be non-radioactive.
The total internal dose to a typical member of the population from internal radionuclides is about 0.42mSv/yr and is approximately 0.29 mSv/yr is due to the K-40 in the body. The rest of the dosage is from C-14.
According to the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurement (NCRP) and its international counterpart, the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP), the recommendations for the maximum permissible dose (MPD) of radiation =
General Public annual MPD by both NCRP and ICRP is 1 mSv.
For Radiation Workers, the annual MPD is 50 mSv (NCRP) and 20 mSv (ICRP), with a cumulative MPD of 10 mSv x Age.
MPD during pregnancy is 5 mSv (NCRP) and 2 mSv (ICRP).
However, experts including Professor Wade Allison of Oxford University argue that the dose limit can safely be raised to 100 millisieverts, based on current health statistics.
Data
K-40 Half-life: 1.28 x 10^9 years
K-40 Decay Mode:
Gamma Rays: 1461 keV (10.7%)
Beta decay (89.3%). The beta maximum energy is 1.31 MeV
Electron Capture (10.7%).
Daily intake of potassium element: 3.3 grams
Amount of potassium element in body: 140 g to 250 g (about 4,400 Bq)
There is a very tight homeostatic control over potassium levels in the human body. This means that the consumption of foods containing large amounts of potassium will not increase the body’s potassium content
Because of the rare earth plant in Malaysia and the fear of dangerous radiation from the NORM Thorium-232, there was a heated argument over the question of :
“Which is more radioactive, Potassium-40 prescribed by your doctor or Thorium-232 in the environment ?”
In fact, one professor and one radiation specialist claimed that potassium-40 is far LESS radioactive than Thorium-232 and they cited the EPA (environment protection agency of American) and the WHO UNSCEAR as proof of their statements!
One of my friends who stated that K-40 is about 62 times more radioactive than Thorium-232 was rubbished by the radiation specialist!
Well, that depends on what we are talking about.
Quote ” It was written somewhere above that potassium-40 is 62 times more radioactive than thorium. That is, I am sorry to note, a complete and utter rubbish:”
Unquote.
1. I think what my friend was thinking about is radioactivity in terms of Bq i.e. activity rather than biological effect (Sv) when he said potassium-40 is 62 times more radioactive than Thorium-232.
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gram
Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gram
Therefore potassium-40 has about 62X more Bq than Thorium-232
*** Even in terms of biological effect, 1 gram of pure potassium-40 will still have a greater biological effect when compared with 1 gram of pure Thorium-232.
Pure Potassium-40 = 254,000 Bq/gram
Quote from radiation specialist: 1 Becquerel per gram of K-40 in the soil (should actually be 1 Bq of K-40 per gram of soil) results in an increase in gamma-levels by ~0.042 microSieverts per hour (WHO UNSCEAR). Unquote
Therefore 254,000 Bq = 10,668 microSieverts/hour
(from 1 gram of pure potassium-40 i.e. not mixed with K-39 and K-41)
*** Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gram
Quote from radiation specialist: Each becquerel per gram of Th-232 (should actually be 1 Bq of K-40 per gram of soil) increases this level by ~0.604 microSv/hour.
Therefore 4,080 Bq = 2,464 microSieverts/hour
10,668 microSv/hr divided by 2,464 microSv/hr = 4.33
or the biological effect of radiation from pure Potassium-40 is actually 4.33 times more than that of pure Thorium-232.
2. If we are talking about 1 gram of naturally occurring Potassium which contains only 0.0118% of K-40, then it is perfectly correct to say that Thorium-232 is more radioactive biologically than Potassium as the naturally occurring potassium has only 32 Bq per gram as compared to K-40 which has 254,000 Bq per gram. (But kindly refer to Dr Gary Kramer argument below.)
So 32 Bq of K = 1.344 microSieverts/hr while 4080 Bq of Thorium-232 = 2,464 microSieverts/hr which is far more biologically radioactive than Potassium.
3. If we compare radioactivity in terms of becquerel (number of atoms decaying per second), 1 Bq of course is equal to 1 Bq in terms of activity.
But in terms of PER Bq (radioactivity from only one nuclear decay) the biological effect, according to UNSCEAR, Potassium-40 and natural potassium is less radioactive biologically than Thorium-232 (but remember that 1 gm potassium-40 has 254,000 atomic decay per sec while 1 gm of Thorium-232 has only 4.080 atomic decay per second ).
SO, BEFORE YOU RUBBISH ANYONE FOR SAYING THAT POTASSIUM-4O IS MORE RADIOACTIVE THAN THORIUM-232 OR VICE VERSA, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
It all depends on whether you are comparing activity (Bq) or biological effect (Sv), whether you are talking about pure potassium-40 or natural potassium which is composed of only 0.0118% highly radioactive K-40 and whether you are comparing Bq per gram of potassium-40 or Bq per gram of soil.
Moreover, we have to state that the Thorium-232 is not that of pure Thorium-232 as freshly isolated pure Thorium-232 do not produce any gamma rays and as such has practically no external biological effect (the 0.09 MeV of gamma rays in freshly isolated Thorium-232 actually comes from Radium-228 that comes from Thorium-228 which is cannot be chemically isolated from Thorium-232).
The same arguments apply to the comparison of the cancer coefficients of potassium-40 and Thorium-232.
In fact, the biological dose 1 metre from a large pile of Thorium-232 is actually 0.39 microSv/hr/Bq/ (IAEA). The figure given by UNSCEAR of 0.69 microSv/hr/Bq/ per gram of soil is for an infinite plain.
Quote: Dr. Gary H. Kramer, who is the Head of the National Internal Radiation Assessment Section at Health Canada and is a world authority in radioactivity in Potassium salts :
Quote: “Potassium chloride can be found in large quantities in stores selling materials for water treatment. The potassium content is about 500 g kg-
Typically, the material is sold in 20 kg bags so each bag contains ~600 kBq of 40K giving a concentration of 30 Bq g-1. This is well above the exclusion level yet the material is handled as non-radioactive.
The external dose rate in close proximity to a typical display in these types of shops would be about 150 microSv hr-1.
A worker would only need to be near the pile for about 7 hours to exceed the public dose limit of 1 mSv.” Unquote.
From the above statement from Dr Gary Kramer, who is a world authority in radioactivity in the Potash mines of Canada, and who also has a bone to pick with the UNSCEAR report, the biological dose from a large pile of KCl is 5 microSv/hr/Bq for K-40.
Since, the biological dose 1 metre from a large pile of Thorium-232 is only 0.39 microSv/hr/Bq/ (IAEA).
And the biological dose from a large pile of KCl is 5 microSv/hr/Bq for K-40,
so in terms of per Bq, K-40 is still far more biologically active than Th-232..
Dr Looi
Technologically-Enhanced, Naturally-Occurring Radioactive Material (Tenorm) is produced when activities such as uranium mining, or sewage sludge treatment, concentrate or expose radioactive materials that occur naturally in ores, soils, water, or other natural materials.
In other words, this natural radioactive material has been made dangerous because it was removed from the ground and concentrated by mechanical and chemical processes.
It has been exported by Australia and will be left in Malaysia as waste by Lynas.
The radioactive material does not disappear once it reaches and is processed in Malaysia, and this dangerous material will be left in Malaysia.
Malaysians will need to keep this securely away from humans for hundreds of thousands of years.
Lynas and AELB have made the Tenorm sound like low level waste by merely diluting the waste until it conforms with IAEA regulations.
Diluting does not make the radiation ‘go away’, and if the diluting liquid evaporates, you will again have concentrated radioactive material very harmful to people. The uranium and thorium will not evaporate with time.
Bear in mind that Australia has categorically stated that it will refuse to receive radioactive materials from other countries.
All other issues aside, thorium is still nuclear energy, say environmentalists, its reactors disgorging the same toxic by-products and fissile waste with the same millennial half-lives.
Oliver Tickell, author of ‘Kyoto2′, says the fission materials produced from thorium are of a different spectrum to those from uranium-235, but ‘”nclude many dangerous-to-health alpha and beta emitters”.
Anti-nuclear campaigner Peter Karamoskos goes further, dismissing a ‘dishonest fantasy’ perpetuated by the pro-nuclear lobby. “Thorium cannot in itself power a reactor; unlike natural uranium, it does not contain enough fissile material to initiate a nuclear chain reaction. As a result it must first be bombarded with neutrons to produce the highly radioactive isotope uranium-233 – “so these are really U-233 reactors’,” says Karamoskos.
“This isotope is more hazardous than the U-235 used in conventional reactors”, he adds, “because it produces U-232 as a side effect (half life: 160,000 years), on top of familiar fission by-products such as technetium-99 (half life: up to 300,000 years) and iodine-129 (half life: 15.7 million years).
“Add in actinides such as protactinium-231 (half life: 33,000 years) and it soon becomes apparent that thorium’s superficial cleanliness will still depend on digging some pretty deep holes to bury the highly radioactive waste”.
Referring to the UK, The Guardian article says that “with billions of pounds already spent on nuclear research, reactor construction and decommissioning costs – dwarfing commitments to renewables – and proposed reform of the UK electricity markets apparently hiding subsidies to the nuclear industry, the thorium dream is considered by many to be a dangerous diversion”.
Citing Jean McSorley senior consultant for Greenpeace’s nuclear campaign: “Even if thorium technology does progress to the point where it might be commercially viable, it will face the same problems as conventional nuclear: it is not renewable or sustainable and cannot effectively connect to smart grids. The technology is not tried and tested, and none of the main players is interested. Thorium reactors are no more than a distraction”.
According to Dr. Rosalie Bertell, who is a radiation expert, thorium reactors also produce a lot of Americium, which is much more toxic than plutonium. “I do not think that, even if thorium some day becomes a viable option, they will ever want to separate out the thorium from the Malaysian waste, where it has been significantly diluted so that it appears to be below regulatory concern.
“You cannot say it is a valuable commodity and also release it as of no concern! Moreover, you are not dealing with pure thorium, but with radioactive material with a long list of radioactive decay products some of which are very radioactive. New reactors will get their thorium from India or Australia. Malaysia would be considered a secondary or tertiary source,” she states.
In other words, there is no economic possibility or feasibility that anyone will use the Malaysian waste for thorium when there are large direct sources of thorium to be had immediately in Australia or India.
Dr. Bertell is a nuclear health expert who has done extensive research on nuclear health impacts all over the world including the Marshall Islands, India, Germany, Ukraine, US and Canada. She has been a consultant to the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the US Environmental Protection Agency. She was a key witness during the Bukit Merah court hearings.
However, contrary to the world experts, the local medical and nuclear so-called experts have recently testified to the PSC that the thorium produced from Lynas was too low to pose significant health dangers.
In contrast to what the PSC has been told by the local so-called experts, the health impacts of radiation are not benign. In a comparative study by V. T. Padmanabhan et al of inhabitants of regions of normal and high background radiation in Kerala from 1988 – 1994, the researchers showed that thorium health damage from monazite sands was evident (International Journal of Health Services Vol. 34 No. 3 pp483-515, 2004).
The study revealed that there was a high incidence of heritable anomalies in the high background region (HBRR). There was a statistically significant increase of Down syndrome, autosomal dominant anomalies and multifactorial diseases and an insignificant increase of autosomal recessive and X-linked recessive anomalies in the HBRR.
The main findings of the study have been summarised as follows:
•The relative risk for chromosomal, autosomal dominant, and multifactorial anomalies is higher in the HBRR.
•For congenital anomalies (WHO’s International Classification of Diseases, ICD 740-757), there is no difference between the areas. Within the study and control areas, ‘nonmigrant’ couples have 51 percent and 61 percent excess relative risk (ERR), respectively, in comparison to ‘migrant’ couples. The ERR among the related versus the unrelated couples is 96 percent in the HBRR and 41 percent in the NRR (normal radiation region).
•Rates of multifactorial anomalies and multiple deaths are higher in the HBRR. Again, the related and the nonmigrant couples have higher risk than the migrants and the unrelated, respectively. The rates among the migrants in both areas are more or less the same.
•If all untoward outcomes other than Down syndrome and Mendelian anomalies are grouped together, 6.4 percent of the unrelated ‘migrants’ in the NRR are affected versus 16.4 percent of the related couples in the HBRR.
The authors suspect that exposure to radiation was genetically significant. “Besides the external radiation from beta particles and gamma rays from the soil, there is the possibility of internal exposure through air, water, and food. Soman (27) estimated the per capita daily uptake of radium-228 by the study population as 4.72 Bq.
“Based on the average consumption of sardines, Van de Laar (18) estimated the daily intake as less than 0.01 Bq per person. Since the coastal land is less fertile and farming and husbandry are restricted to small pockets, the internal exposure is mainly from poultry products, fish, and accidental ingestion of fine grains of monazite in childhood.”
They revealed that the mean cumulative exposure to external radiation during the reproductive life of people living in the high-background radiation regions is 18 rads for women and 22 rads for men, six times the exposure in the normal radiation region.
In conclusion, thorium from Lynas is Tenorm and a radioactive waste which has serious health risks.
We urge the PSC and the government to seriously weigh the published and reviewed scientific findings and views of the international experts quoted above before decisions on Lynas are made.
We strongly urge that Lynas be NOT allowed to operate in Malaysia.
Your cement house is more radioactive than Lynas waste…Another half-cooked article.
Compared Lynas waste with PURE Thorium-based nuclear reactor is truly a stupidity in the highest level.
The radiation safety aspect of LAMP is legitimized by the IAEA’s review. However, increasing number of scientific literature points to a strong possibility that the IAEA model may have underestimated the risk of internal emitters, which are radioactive sources that are inhaled or ingested. This hypothesis is not merely based on correlation type studies, but is backed with sound scientific reasoning.
Thorium accumulates in the body. According to the “Radiological and Chemical Fact Sheets to Support Health Risk Analyses for Contamination”, about 0.02% to 0.05% of ingested thorium is dissolved in the bloodstream, and subsequently deposited mainly in the bones where the radioactive source becomes embedded within the bone tissue for a few decades. We are unsure exactly how much the body retains thorium from inhalation, but we know that “thorium is taken up in the body much more readily if inhaled rather than ingested”. True enough, the Radiological Risk Coefficient from inhalation is 450 times greater than that of ingestion.
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SINCE THE TOL FOR LYNAS HAS PRACTICALLY BEEN SORTED OUT, I WONDER IF THERE IS THERE SOME SMART ANTI OR PRO LYNAS FOLK WHO COULD GIVE SOME USEFUL COMMENTS ON THIS SHORT ARTICLE WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RADIATION !
GRAVITY AND SPACE
In the vacuum of space, if there are two bodies A and B and if there is absolutely nothing between them they should come together since there is nothing to keep them apart.
Nobody really knows what “Space” is made up of.
However, there must be some form of energy or entity that creates the space to keep them apart.
This energy/entity which keep the planets and stars apart could have been created during the big bang.
And this same entity may be the energy that is contributing to the impedance of massless particles like the photons in a vacuum and the entity which cause an increase in the mass of particles as it reaches the speed of light.
This energy/entity which creates the space between two objects and keeps all the heavenly bodies apart may (for the time being) be referred to as space/time.
The conventional Einstein concept of gravity is that it bends space-time and as such causes two objects to move towards each other. And the Newtonian concept is that it is nothing more than just an attractive force.
What I am trying to say is that there maybe another more simple concept.
If there are 2 objects in the vacuum of space, and if there is really absolutely nothing in between, the two objects do not move towards each other, but rather they should be next to each other!
The 2 objects do not need conventional gravity to pull them towards each other. No “space” between the two objects means the two objects are next to each other!
The fact that objects in the vacuum of space are separate is because there is “space” in between them and since this space do exist, it must be something real and since all “real” things are a form of energy, this “space” must have been created by some form of energy.
Gravity could also be explained by assuming that any body with a mass will be capable of absorbing or distorting or bending this space/time and creating a decreasing density of this space/time as we go nearer and nearer to this body.
This decreasing density of space/time around every mass will have all the characteristics of what we perceive as “gravity”.
As a particle with mass moves through space, this space/time entity would be compressed in front of the mass to give the mass the same effect as having an increase in the mass of the object as it moves faster and faster i.e. the mass of an object increases with it’s speed. And as it slows down, the reverse occurs until it is at rest, when it has only it’s rest energy.
One candidate which may qualify as the entity which creates this “space” in between all masses may be the Hick’s boson since the Hick’s field fills the whole of the universe.
So before the big bang, since there is really absolutely nothing, with no time and space, all virtual particles that are being continuously created out of nothing should come together and occupy the same point and as such would ultimately form a singularity with almost infinite density and triggers off the big bang.
This could happen if there is a mechanism which separate these virtual particles from their anti-particles.
So has anybody found such a mechanism?
Note: This short comment had been checked by 2 international particle physicists and they could not find any serious fault with it.
Dr HW Looi
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QUOTE KH Kong: ” IAEA model may have underestimated the risk of internal emitters, which are radioactive sources that are inhaled or ingested. This hypothesis is not merely based on correlation type studies, but is backed with sound scientific reasoning.”
Dear Mr Kong,
Please read my reply to Prof Chan’s statement somewhere above as well.
CERRIE Minority Report and European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR)
The anti-lynas group (including the good Hon. Professor C.) has often used the CERRIE Minority Report to claim that “There is strong evidence that current models of hazard from radioactivity inside the human body underestimate risks by at least 100 and possibly up to 1,000 times.”
What happened at CERRIE (Committee Examining Radiation Risks of Internal Emitters) is well known (see http://iopscience.iop.org/0952-4746/24/4/E02/pdf/jr44e1.pdf , http://www.cerrie.org/ and
http://www.comare.org.uk/ which advises the UK government) and is due to two members, one of whom is Christopher Busby who, it seems, sells radiation protection kits to Fukushima survivors
(see http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/21/christopher-busby-radiation-pills-fukushima and
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/nov/22/christopher-busby-nuclear-green-party ). Busby is very political and even ran for office.
They also cited that the self-styled European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR) which is an informal committee formed in 1997 following a meeting by the European Green Party which claimed that the risk from radioactive internal emitters are at least 100 to 200 times more hazardous than currently believed.
Quote: Nick Tsurikov, Radiation Safety Expert “The point that I would like to make is to illustrate clearly that ECRR “100-200 times” factors cannot possibly be correct – have a look:
The ‘official’ risk of getting cancer from radiation exposure is 1 in 20,000 per 1 milliSievert of dose. So, if the hazard is ‘understated’ by, say, 200 times – it becomes 1 in 100, per 1 mSv of dose.
Thousands of people in Malaysian amang industry and in heavy mineral sands industry world-wide have been exposed to about 5 mSv every year for (let’s say, on average) 6 years of working life, so their cumulative dose was 30 mSv.
WHICH MEANS THAT IF ECRR IS CORRECT, EVERY THIRD WORKER IN THE AMANG INDUSTRY WOULD BE DEAD FROM CANCER BY NOW !
And what about those who were exposed to about 20 mSv for five years or more (in any industry, uranium included) – in accordance with the ECRR coefficients – the chance is 1 in 1, so they are all dead from cancer by now…
I do not see any cancer epidemic happening… What about all the tin miners in Malaysia in 1950′s-1970′s: they all should’ve died within several years after starting their work (as their coefficient would be close to 5 to 1…) Just some points for general consideration…” Unquote.
Dato’ Dr Looi